[PONTIAC DUDE]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by pont406:
GOBRDGO, You stated in another post, that you contacted Bruce about your problem,and that he offered to fix the damage, however he wasn't going to fix it for FREE. is that unreasonable? we are talking about a "race engine" are we not? sure, he should/would have to eat the labor costs, but parts would be another story, would like to hear from the engine builders who post here, on how they would handle this? I seem to remember a PY member who posted awhile back, about a quality problem with his Eheads that caused him some engine damage, when he called edelbrock, looking for help, he got none! when he posted here to "vent" most of the guys on here told him to repair the damage, take the financial setback, and move on. do any of the engine builders here give full parts and labor warranty for race/ or street/strip motors? not trying to start a p*ssing contest, but you were happy with it until something broke! </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

One can only guarentee workmanship on 'RACE' engines. However if a bearing/bearings go south, then I would want to see the Whole engine complete and not tampered with to determine.

Timing issues.
Detonation because of octane.
Oil starvation.
And other issues that that occurr with bearing failure.

Question?
How can a <span class="ev_code_RED">New</span> oil pump pick up with pump Fall off?
Stock pan & Pick-up or Race?

Pont406: According to the owner of the engine. He stated that RRE wouldn't Spend a Dime and I guess this is before he looked or wanted to look at the whole engine?
Just blown off completely?

[gobrdgo]

Bruce never said he would fix the problem, He said he would take a look, He also said he wouldn't pay for anything. He also expressed zero remorse. My motor languished in his shop forever as in over 6 months after full payment. How quick would he be to work on a non paying or parts only engine? How about never! WHY did he build it? He had way too much of my money, from a long time ago to ever back out of the deal, including traded parts. After the failure and becoming alot more acquainted with his practices there is no way I want his technical help or services anymore. Can sh%#@t happen in profesional race engine building? YES, but when you screw enough people and act like a pompous ass and play stupid when the problems are brought to your attention people (me) tend to not be very understanding when you sh%$t your pants. I'm getting angry, and I still haven't even came close to explaining how many things sucked about Fulper building my engine. I am building a new better faster powerplant with some help and a whole lotta research and don't want to dwell on this anymore. I stated what happened for the betterment of the hobby. If you feel bad for Bruce I really don't care.

[Formulas]

The problem with the engine was the oil pump pick up fell off causing the resulting failure.

[Formulas]

Hit the wrong buttons..
Anyways there isnt anything a engine owner can do to make a pump pickup fall off short of playing dukes of hazzard, this without a doubt means that the pick up was installed wrong therefore crappy workmanship caused all the damage not over reving or miss use from the customer racing his engine.
The builder should be and is responsible for all repairs to start with so when flop says he wont fix it for free..
Do you feel its right to pay someone to build your engine again who ruined it to start with ???
How do you feel about providing new parts to a person that messed up good parts already provided to him in the first place??
Let him profit from his mistake??
And why would you entrust someone again who couldnt get something as basic as a pump right to start with?

Building engines isnt rocket science i am not in the biz, but i learned how to put a pickup on when i was 16 in school auto shop now 46 and i have never blown up an engine.

You would think a self proclaimed worlds best professional would either tack weld or safety wire the pick up in place.

[JoeF]

I'd send an e-mail to POCI telling them you won't renew unless they drop his advertising. I realize that might not do much, however you might follow that up with a post here on PY telling everyone what you told POCI. My guess is you'd have a few supporters that would tell POCI the same.

[lugnutt]

You should also send them a link to this forum string!!

[RPM]

Do engine builders guarantee their work? Well at least one I know does. A friend of mine had his engine done by a Pontiac engine builder and guess what, oil pump problems developed shortly afterward. Engine was taken to him intact. He opened it up, discovered his screw-up and made the necessary repairs. No cost to the customer except for his labor (and mine) to R&R the engine. The way it should be. After all, there was considerable work involved, transport and misc expenses incurred related to this "oversight" that he didn't reimburse. What happened is that when he inspected the pump he forgot to tighten the check ball spring nut. It vibrated, loosened and fell off into the pan. Of course this didn't help oil pressure much.

[pont406]

According to GOBRDGO, when He contacted Bruce about his engine problems, Bruce told him, he'd "take a look at it" ( I assume this means bring it in, so I can tear it down!) however, when GOBRDGO, did this, I'm assuming he didn't know what was really wrong with it at that time! when Bruce told him it would probably cost him more money to "fix it" he also didn't know the extent or cause of any damage, having not seen the engine.GOBRDGO decided to go elsewhere, his choice, but sounds like, Bruce wasn't given the chance to "make it right" in this case.

[71lemanz]

Well Pont406, let me share my experience with Bruce when I brought my motor back to him so he could "take a look". Two weeks later he sends me a letter stating that the engine had been tampered with and he would charge me storage, signed by his attorney. The problem with the motor was that it drained all coolant overnight because the freeze plugs leaked. Inside each freeze plug was JB welded a tab that said "warranty voided if removed". Bruce tells me to take the motor to another person. If you know CA law, as soon as someone else looks at it, the warranty is void. Nope, Bruce knows what he is doing. I just wonder why anyone would defend him? Everybody I have met in the hobby that knows him, can't stand him. The Pontiac bretheren is a small group in So. Cal. The only people that don't know about Bruce are newbies. We should be congratulating GOBRDGO on staying in the hobby after taking it for ten grand.

[stevep]

POCI can not ban an advertiser just because someone told someone else that Bruce burned him. If enough people email the President, He WILL do something about it. But he needs written proof. No one has ever officially complained about him. I have heard all the stories, but I have no 1st hand proof.
A member contacted me about a long time exhaust vendor. I did some research and found he had some complaints over some time (one was me). When I found Hemmings had booted him for the same reason, it was not hard to get his ads pulled.
I will do what I can.

[J.C.you]

time to go see Judge Judy! would love to see this case on the tube!

[GTO 4MA]

Quote Brian Baker:

"Only trouble is, 99% of the POCI membership is not into racing or building performance engines that make more power than they did in OEM form."

Simply not true - virtually ever issue of Smoke Signals has at least one article on drag racing and performance engines/vehicles.

"We're talking about an organization that just within the last 2 years decided to have a drag race at their annual convention."

Again, simply not true. POCI conventions have had drag racing events held in conjuction with the convention dates and locations over the past decade. Last year, the drag racing event became an official part of the convention, rather than an event simply held in conjuction with the convention.

"We're talking about an organization that let GM influence them into including GMC trucks into the membership -"

Once again, simply not true. The issue of allowing GMC into POCI was decided by majority vote of those members voting on the issue.

"which has turned out to be a collossal flop, no pun intended...there just haven't been many GMC owners join the club"

POCI regional meets have attracted some of the most unique and well done GMC trucks in the country.

"We're also talking about an organization that is so hung up on only giving a "Best in Show" trophy at their annual convention to a pre-war car"

If those voting at a popular vote car show choose a pre-war car as best of show it is simply a reflection of those voting - nothing to do with being "hung-up" on anything. Many who are voting understand that restoration of a pre-war vehicle is a more difficult and expensive undertaking, since far less cars were manufactured back then, less parts exist, no repro parts are available, etc.

"that when they took numerous complaints about it, rather than just award the trophy to whichever was the best car (regardless if it's pre or post war), they came up with two "best of" categories...best of pre and best of post."

POCI does listen to its membership. The membership felt both eras should be recognized. BTW, what is wrong with having both a best of show pre-war and post-war?

Quote Joe F.

"I'd send an e-mail to POCI telling them you won't renew unless they drop his advertising. I realize that might not do much, however you might follow that up with a post here on PY telling everyone what you told POCI. My guess is you'd have a few supporters that would tell POCI the same."

You're right, it won't do much, in fact it won't do anything. Do you actually think POCI is stupid enough to risk a lawsuit from an advertiser based upon hearsay on an internet website? If a POCI member has serious issues with a POCI advertiser, then they should provide written documentation to POCI about the problem.

[blk68gto]

I bought a 7qt Moroso oil pan from Jegs a few years ago with pick up. A car pulled out in front of me and I locked the brakes at about 55 or 60. My oil pressure went to 30lbs. Ruined every bearing in the engine. Jegs sold me the Moroso Oil Pan I ordered BUT sold me a Milodin sump pick-up. After tear down I found the problem. Moroso 7 qt pan is 8" deep Milodin sump was for a 7 1'2" deep pan. I was suckin air at that RPM. First of all I ASSUMED, shoulda checked when installing. NOBODY offered any help nor did I receive any. Jegs said they did nothing wrong because at the time Moroso didn't make a sump for that Oil pan? Although they found one upon re-order. Milodin couldn't be responsible, wasn't their pan. Jegs said they sold me what I ordered, a sump for a 7qt pontiac pan. Plus, bigger pan means you MUST BE RACING and of course NO WARRANTY.

[Brian Baker]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by GTO 4MA:
Quote Brian Baker:

"Only trouble is, 99% of the POCI membership is not into racing or building performance engines that make more power than they did in OEM form."

Simply not true - virtually ever issue of Smoke Signals has at least one article on drag racing and performance engines/vehicles.

"We're talking about an organization that just within the last 2 years decided to have a drag race at their annual convention."

Again, simply not true. POCI conventions have had drag racing events held in conjuction with the convention dates and locations over the past decade. Last year, the drag racing event became an official part of the convention, rather than an event simply held in conjuction with the convention.

"We're talking about an organization that let GM influence them into including GMC trucks into the membership -"

Once again, simply not true. The issue of allowing GMC into POCI was decided by majority vote of those members voting on the issue.

"which has turned out to be a collossal flop, no pun intended...there just haven't been many GMC owners join the club"

POCI regional meets have attracted some of the most unique and well done GMC trucks in the country.

"We're also talking about an organization that is so hung up on only giving a "Best in Show" trophy at their annual convention to a pre-war car"

If those voting at a popular vote car show choose a pre-war car as best of show it is simply a reflection of those voting - nothing to do with being "hung-up" on anything. Many who are voting understand that restoration of a pre-war vehicle is a more difficult and expensive undertaking, since far less cars were manufactured back then, less parts exist, no repro parts are available, etc.

"that when they took numerous complaints about it, rather than just award the trophy to whichever was the best car (regardless if it's pre or post war), they came up with two "best of" categories...best of pre and best of post."

POCI does listen to its membership. The membership felt both eras should be recognized. BTW, what is wrong with having both a best of show pre-war and post-war?

Quote Joe F.

"I'd send an e-mail to POCI telling them you won't renew unless they drop his advertising. I realize that might not do much, however you might follow that up with a post here on PY telling everyone what you told POCI. My guess is you'd have a few supporters that would tell POCI the same."

You're right, it won't do much, in fact it won't do anything. Do you actually think POCI is stupid enough to risk a lawsuit from an advertiser based upon hearsay on an internet website? If a POCI member has serious issues with a POCI advertiser, then they should provide written documentation to POCI about the problem. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

To quote Daffy Duck, "It is to laugh".

If you consider coverage of Pontiacs involvement in NHRA pro class racing (namely Pro Stock) to be "coverage of drag racing and performance engines/vehicles", then I guess you got me on that one. Other than the skin they're wrapped in, there isn't a single Pontiac in any form of Pro class racing that shares anything with we enjoy personally within the hobby.

You openly admit that it has only been in the last 2 years that POCI has included drag racing as part or their annual convention. Prior to that, they had nothing to do with the convention at all, they just happened to be held during the same week to coincide with the convention. You make it sound as if POCI officers were involved from the first one, but they weren't. It was the hard work of members that wanted racing with the convention that got all of the ducks in a row.

POCI never brought up the inclusion of GMC's until GM merged the sales divisions of Pontiac and GMC. Prior to this, the idea of inclusion wasn't even a fart in the wind. The reason it was left to a vote from the members was a mere formality...it HAD to be put to a referendum vote to be in accordance with the club bylaws. And it has been a FLOP, it may have brought some cool vehicles out for all to see, but has it really swelled the membership ranks? I think not, otherwise there would be more GMC coverage in Smokes'.

POCI is a great organization, but even great ones have flaws. Just calling it like I see it.

[GTO 4MA]

Quote Brian Baker:

"Other than the skin they're wrapped in, there isn't a single Pontiac in any form of Pro class racing that shares anything with we enjoy personally within the hobby."

Who's we? You?

"You make it sound as if POCI officers were involved from the first one, but they weren't. It was the hard work of members that wanted racing with the convention that got all of the ducks in a row."

You seem to know a lot about the drag racing event history of POCI. Just who were the members that supported and helped organize the drag races prior to 2004?

"POCI never brought up the inclusion of GMC's until GM merged the sales divisions of Pontiac and GMC. Prior to this, the idea of inclusion wasn't even a fart in the wind."

So you're saying including GMC in POCI was never discussed prior to the merger of the sales divisions. How do you know this?

"but has it really swelled the membership ranks?"

Who said it would swell the membership ranks?

"POCI is a great organization, but even great ones have flaws."

As a member of POCI, don't you think it would be more productive to put your efforts towards helping out rather than bashing POCI on an internet web site? Do you plan on attending and participating in this year's drag event at Atlanta Dragway?

[Ccass]

2nd hand posts will be deleted.

[ponchobob]

We used to have a famous (infamous) local "pontiac expert" here in southeast Mi. Mid-America or "Warrior".Was known for 20+ years as "rip off Ray Hunt" or later, before he closed his store in Westland, and went Mail Order Only, as "Fulper East!!"-Don't know weather he still sell's his only legit claim to fame, the Legendary Nash (renamed "warrior") manifold's or not, But I can name close to a dozen people who wound up putting "corporate" engines in their cars after dealing with his shenanigans.-Bob.

[gobrdgo]

test

[gobrdgo]

Pont406 this is for you. Here's my list of things that sucked about my buildup post full teardown.
Block AND crank are not mine, wrong initial stamps.
Paid $650 for rods, he installed cheaper CAT rods.
Machine work he said he did he didn't. align hone not done, etc.
no bronze gear on my dist. and cam gear not reworked on roller cam. How long would that alone of lasted?
CNC ported heads, NOT according to BPE cylinder heads who flowed them with disappointing results for me.
Paid for race demon carb, got speed demon
used plug wires
Leaked oil on dyno!!! I'll post this list on more sites also Bruce. I know you read it every day.

[Batman]

Take a couple of minutes and file a BAR complaint. I work with these guys all the time and I assure you this is why they exist!

Bureau of Auto repair online complaint