[pont406]

One of the items Ray DID bring back, Larry's Mig welder, belongs to me now. i ran up to Valpo yesterday and bought it from Darcie! Thanks Darcie. it was nice meeting you yesterday, one less thing she has to worry about!

[JLHarper]

Thats the one I tried to buy.... twice..... right after it was listed along with other equip/tools.....with no replies.Was to be picked up at Norwalk.

Bought new MMatic 210. Happy to hear she finally sold it.

[herdswoman]

JLHarper, that is both kind and big of you to say you are happy for Darcie, even though you tried to buy that welder twice with no reply. You put her welfare above cutting a deal for yourself, and that speaks volumes.

Thank you for sharing the truth about that matter with all of us. I had no idea, and I'm sure Darc didn't either. More stuff has bubbled up out of the slime and the cesspools than I ever dreamed of on these matters. And I have it all in writing.

Oh what a tangled web we weave when first we practice to deceive. Sir Walter Scott

My faults are many. But I am no liar and I keep my word.

[Brian Baker]

You know, the internet has made the world very small. I was at our local GTO club Christmas party last night, when Lil Jack brought up Ray in conversation, asking if I'd heard any more news on this situation. I advised him no new news, that the trailer was still in his storage facility. A couple of other club members overheard and approached me later, asking me about it. Said they remember reading about it on PY. These were members whom I only see once, maybe three times a year tops.

[mike nixon]

brian, you're right, word gets around quickly these days. it seems like bad news has always spread quicker than good.

i'm sure more people than we all realise are watching this thread with interest.

mike

[DAV137]

JL Harper, I never knew you wanted to buy that welder. Ray never memtioned it. Once the price started coming down, he decided he would want to buy it. Had it since the end of August. I just finally got it back last week and sold it to Marty from central Indiana yesterday. I can't make a list of what he has, there is a temporary list but I have no idea what is what. Amy is trying to help, I just don't want this to get ugly.

[Brian Baker]

Darcie...it already is ugly. You have friends here that are trying to help, and I know you are very grateful for that, but for God's sake...and for Larry's memory...stop letting Ray use you as a doormat. The time to play "nice-nice" has long since passed.

Ray, I know you'll see this...for Christ sake man...get off your a$$ and return to Darcie what is rightfully hers. No and's if's or but's...no more stalling...no more hemming and hawing...no more phone calls to explain your side...just get it back to her this week.

[mike nixon]

Originally Posted by DAV137

JL Harper, I never knew you wanted to buy that welder. Ray never memtioned it. Once the price started coming down, he decided he would want to buy it. Had it since the end of August.

it sounds to me like ray's intentionally with held info from darcie so he could get what he had possession of cheap.

that's a pretty low thing for someone to do in a situation such as this.

maybe a copy of all of this should be sent to the indiana realtors ethincs dept. it's speaks volumes of his character.


mike

[DAV137]

I picked up a message from Ray (my phone was off while at the movie). I do want to tell everyone though that Ray did mention something about somebody being interested in the welder at the time of Norwalk. There was a problem with transporting it from Norwalk to wherever this person lived. Ray did not want to take it to Norwalk unless there was a sure sell since it was kinda big and cumbersome. I don 't know the person's name but I do recall the conversation now since Ray reminded me of it. He assures me that the rest of the stuff will taken care of this week. I know I give a lot of opportunity which has probably been part of my demise. I don't intend to get him into any trouble with realtors, etc. I know his wife and children and I would never do anything to jeopardize his livlihood or the life of his family as far as security goes. I didn't start the thread so I don't feel like I am instigating anything. It's just whenever I am reminded of a past situation, I want it to go on record to be fair.

[mike nixon]

darcie, we all know you've bent over backwards to be fair about this.

the problem is, it's obvious you've been taken advantage of in this situation.

ray's dug his own hole.

mike

[herdswoman]

Originally Posted by DAV137

.... never do anything to jeopardize his livlihood or the life of his family as far as security goes. I didn't start the thread so I don't feel like I am instigating anything. It's just whenever I am reminded of a past situation, I want it to go on record to be fair.

Darc, he does plenty to jeopardize his livlihood and families' security on his own. There is example after example in his dealings with you. It is always unethical to have personal property and personal finances intermingled when you are representing someone professionally.

A nurse or doctor could lose their license for something like that.

Going on record to be fair is a good thing. "Fair" is a concept that needs definition:

Fair is you going to Ray's house on your own and asking for your property to be returned to you.

Beyond fair is taking your son with you - the only living male you have physically near you...until the rest of your sons come home. It is an action that demonstrates a need for protection and self-preservation.

Beyond all reason is three weeks of patience, three weeks of peer pressure after months of exhausting all your options that do not cost an arm and leg (i.e. attorney) and time you do not have.

Enough is enough.

I kicked azz at work this past week and have major comp time coming. With any luck, I'll be done Tuesday, maybe even tomorrow. I am looking forward to seeing you soon. With any luck, we'll be having coffee and Bailey's before you know it.

[JLHarper]

If he is refering to me in regard to message left with Darcy, this is not "exactly" how it happened.

I never talked with him. Never have. I left cell message, PM with my cell number.

Interested in welder, grinder(s) and drill press I recall, maybe other item or two.

Never received reply, after two attempts.

Had friend who was going to Norwalk prepared to pick up and told COX this in message.

I have Fed Ex account, PayPal acct, Western Union acct. and cash, so getting the money there (to Norwalk or IN) wasnt the issue, but how was he to know anyway when he never replied?

[Brian Baker]

Well...that figures, Jeff. In phone conversation, Ray told me he didn't go to Norwalk to sell parts, he went to race, which is why he had some helper named Derrick tag along to watch over the parts for sale. When I asked why he offerred to take the parts to Norwalk then, I didn't get a straight answer. He told me the Norwalk parts sales was a wash anyway, only making about $120 (he said "about", not me...when I sell parts, I usually know the exact amount). Given the disorganization of the parts taken in the trailer, and the fact that Ray wasn't around to sell (leaving it with Derrick), how can he really be sure what sold for what?

[Cliff R]

We manage to race, sell parts, talk to folks, sell books, walk/drive around and look for parts, wonder over to the car show(s), the parts for sale by vendors, visit with old friends, get a quart of icecream for a dollar here and there, watch racing, walk the dog, help other racers work on their cars, help them find parts to work on their cars, have cookouts, etc, etc, etc.

You can't "sell" me that racing takes up all your time, to a point where you couldn't sell a few parts here and there, unless your car is so messed up you spend the entire 3 days working on it trying to get it down the track? I went many, many rounds this year, winning the Stock Class, the run-off to be the overall winner in Stock, and down to runner up for the King Pontiac race, and still had PLENTY of time to take care of business, and have LOTS of fun!.......Cliff

[PONTIAC DUDE]

Originally Posted by Cliff R

We manage to race, sell parts, talk to folks, sell books, walk/drive around and look for parts, wonder over to the car show(s), the parts for sale by vendors, visit with old friends, get a quart of icecream for a dollar here and there, watch racing, walk the dog, help other racers work on their cars, help them find parts to work on their cars, have cookouts, etc, etc, etc.

You can't "sell" me that racing takes up all your time, to a point where you couldn't sell a few parts here and there, unless your car is so messed up you spend the entire 3 days working on it trying to get it down the track? I went many, many rounds this year, winning the Stock Class, the run-off to be the overall winner in Stock, and down to runner up for the King Pontiac race, and still had PLENTY of time to take care of business, and have LOTS of fun!.......Cliff

Ditto!!!!!!!!!!!

[DAV137]

All I know is what Ray told me about the welder. He is assuring me all stuff will be returned this week. If Amy still wants to come over, she is more than welcome. I do work all this week so I am not around Valpo during the day. I hope all gets returned this week and this will end. I don't know who Ray was talking about when he told me about someone interested in the welder back in August. It is hard to figure out what is what and who is who with so many things involved.

[JLHarper]

The most important/pressing issue would be to get this situation resloved, for you.

I am sure it will be finished soon to your sastification.

[WARCHIEF400]

Jeff ask me to pick up the tools at Norwalk, money nor transportation was a issue, I was up there to pick up some parts. While up there Jeff stated that he left a message for Cox on his phone advising that I would be there to pick up the tools. FYI Jeff Harper is one of the most stand up guys you will ever meet, he is not one to BS.

[David Holmberg]

Originally Posted by WARCHIEF400

FYI Jeff Harper is one of the most stand up guys you will ever meet, he is not one to BS.

I agree with this, Jeff is a man of his word!

[herdswoman]

As long as we are being fair, I'd like to go on record with a few statements:

1. I've never been a bully, never was into public embarrassment, not even with my ex-husband. But I have no problem calling a spade a spade; or holding anyone accountable for their actions; or being held accountable for my own actions.

2. I was raised by a father who taught me that whatever you do in private should withstand the cold hard light of day. His advice and his example has served me well, and continues to this day. You could say that my husband is the sun in my galaxy, my warmth and my strength - and my father is the North Star.

3. I respect karma, because what goes around, comes around. So I am walking carefully, making sure that every step is sound, safe and legal. Karma is a lady with a wicked sense of humor and I do not care to be on the receiving end of it.

4. I am no one's fair weather friend. When I love someone, I love them 110% - God help 'em. When I promise that I will be there, I am there.

5. I have tried all means I know how to keep this from going this far: public pressure, peer pressure, asking people who Ray trusts (Mike Wachter (ponchoshop), Brian Baker and Scott Misus to use their influence with Ray to do the right thing quickly. I have all of this writing, with dates and times.

Ray, I know you will see this. I would rather have a quiet Christmas season with my family and I suppose you would too. So I am going to ask you nicely, right here in front of these thousands of members, hundreds of fellow racers and your own race sponsors: please return Darcie's property to her and the proceeds from the sale of the parts from the Norwalk TriPower Nationals by Wednesday afternoon. There is no reason we cannot see the final result that Darcie has received payment in full and the remainder of her parts by Wednesday night. Norwalk was four months ago, this issue has been ongoing and in the Pontiac public's eye for over three weeks.

If I have to come to Valparaiso, I will have with me enough documentation to get that U-Store-It unlocked with or without you there. There is plenty on this website, and the attempts you have made at returning partial funds and partial amounts of tools only demonstrates insincerity and a willingness to keep jerking Darcie around. It is at that point that the charges for conversion will come into play.

After the police get involved, I'll start emailing to the people who sponsor your car. Frank or Bob, if either of you are here now, I'd really appreciate it if you would just respond "We are reading and following this topic."

Then, I'll start inquiries with the IHRA and NHRA to see how broadly the rules of "unsportsmanlike conduct" can be applied. The parts sale at Norwalk occured at a very well known IHRA track, and which just went NHRA as everyone knows. Can an incident at one track be applicable at others? What does it take to get banned from racing? I don't know - yet. But I have reliable people fairly well high up in the food chain that are very good places to start.

Then there is the Indiana Realtors Board of Ethics. Any other Indiana Realtor with an interest in Pontiacs could just stumble across this site. Anyone who googles "Ray Cox" might find this thread. There is so much explicit information here about how you have a client's personal property in your possession, how you have represented other personal property of hers for sale and not released those funds immediately. In fact, you haven't kept an itemized list of what you have sold, or what Derek sold for you while you were racing, and you do not really know the dollar amount. So much time has gone by since Norwalk, your personal finances have gotten tangled up in the finances of a client and that is very bad.

Ray, do you realize the deep, deep, doo-doo you are in? It is all here, all on the web. The Ethics Board would have more than enough to launch a full blown investigation and revoke your license. No one has to pick up the phone.

Will I like doing this? No.
If I saw someone swiping narcotics out of the drawer at work, would I turn them in? Yes.
Would I like doing it? No.

I will do what I have to, what I need to, for my friend who has lost the source of her strength and center, is being jerked over, is facing Christmas alone, and going through the roughest days of her life.

I stand by my friends. I will drive to Valparaiso, Indiana. I keep my word.

I cannot be any more clear. I have even said please.

If all is delivered by Wednesday night no excuses nothing goes further and it all ends right here.