December Sales - PY Online Forums

455HOGT37 · #1 01-05-2005, 08:44 AM

2,952 and 13,569 for the year.

I always said it is a 25k car! Amazing what a realistic price does for sales.

455HOGT37 · #2 01-05-2005, 08:44 AM

2,952 and 13,569 for the year.

I always said it is a 25k car! Amazing what a realistic price does for sales.

pont3 · #3 01-05-2005, 06:52 PM

But they're not selling!!!! Nobody wants this car. It's a sales flop. 15728 made.

455HOGT37 · #4 01-06-2005, 08:51 AM

Well there are 2200 left over then... Many of my local dealers inventory has not moved for almost two months. I wonder what they are going to do to move them? I return from the Middle East next week and will see if they have anything to offer. If the deals are not as good as they have been for December, they will not get my money this year. There's no way I can watch the deals that were out there, then pay MORE for a car that is a "year old"!

Sales flop... I don't know about that. Certainly not repeating history by any means. They thought they could only move 3,000 GTO's in 64, but they were wrong then too... They did ten times that number! I'm sure GM would have liked to have that kind of "accounting probem" again with this Holden product.

Tom McQueen · #5 01-06-2005, 05:13 PM

Its a flop. Both in terms of buyers appeal and price point. Play 'spin the facts' if you must, but the numbers tell the truth.

HUMBLER · #6 01-06-2005, 05:31 PM

87% of expected sales, beat out the Cobra and Mach 1 in sales. Those facts are anything but a flop, no ands, ifs or butts about that!

Go ahead and "spin those facts."

red70goat · #7 01-06-2005, 05:44 PM

[QUOTE]Originally posted by humbler:
87% of expected sales...QUOTE]

expected sales

as to what selling price? MSRP? or deep discounts and whatever else they had to do to move them?

red70goat · #8 01-06-2005, 06:06 PM

Bob Lutz, GM Industry Report Aug. 2, 2004: " Maybe in retrospect we should have done a more retro looking car". Gee, No sh*t Bob! Did you just figure that out?

pont3 · #9 01-06-2005, 06:20 PM

And be priced at less than 25k. Seriously, what models aren't being discounted to move them? I don't understand this "retro" craze. Just imagine if all the new cars looked like old cars where is the forward thinking in that? What makes the old cars so desirable now is the rarity. New cars should be new. Mark my words, as the new GTO gains exposure and recognition for what it is and what it does, the "gotta have it factor" will skyrocket and this will become a highly sought after machine.
This is only the first year after a 30 year absence.

charlzm · #10 01-07-2005, 04:00 AM

God, will this thread ever end? They should never have called it a GTO because there are too many crusty old/closed-minded people out there ready to scream when the holy letters G,T and O are used together, regarldess of the context. It should have been called the Pontiac Monaro. There wouldn't have been 1/10th the bitching and moaning if GM had dared to give us a 350 hp RWD sports coupe that "only" sold 13,000 units by a different name.

You know, I have had Pontiacs several times in my life. My mom had a '72 LeMans, I had a'78 Phoenix and now I have a '98 Grand Prix. I realize Pontiac is just another flavor of global GM defined by bumpers and badging, essentially no different than Chevys or Buicks. That's what amazes me here more than anything else; the desperately nostalgic mania that has lots of old timers in its grip.

To those who can't accept the Monaro with a Pontiac snout as a GTO: fine. Either debadge it and drive a (now) 400 hp car with pride, or go back to your own forums and talk about your $50k restorations.

Sorry if I seem a little bitter (like the old guys who hate the new GTO?),but it's so, so old now. You hate the new GTO, you hate Bob Lutz, you hate change and progress. You probably voted Republican, too.

David Jones · #11 01-07-2005, 07:33 AM

Well, at least the Republican thing was right.

red70goat · #12 01-07-2005, 07:43 AM

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Charlzm:
.... there are too many crusty old/closed-minded people... QUOTE]

Yeah, there are too many of us. Too bad that isn't the market Lutz went after. Republicans are the only ones that have money to buy one anyways.

red70goat · #13 01-07-2005, 08:11 AM

[QUOTE]Originally posted by pont3:
...Just imagine if all the new cars looked like old cars... (QUOTE]

That's just the problem: the GM Monaro looks old. Pontiac has had that same worn out design for over a decade and it looks like everything else they make. If they wanted to base it off a Monaro then they should have gone with the Monaro CV8 which is a real killer both in perfomance and looks. Imagine if Holden dealerships had opened in the US competing direclty with BMW, Mercedes, etc. Imagine an import such as the Monaro CV8 that looks distinctly like an Aston Martin but at 1/2 the price of a BMW and being able to kick the stuffing out of it? I'd buy one.

red70goat · #14 01-07-2005, 08:16 AM

Monaro CV8

red70goat · #15 01-07-2005, 08:22 AM

2004 GTO ( insert )

455HOGT37 · #16 01-07-2005, 09:19 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by humbler:
87% of expected sales, beat out the Cobra and Mach 1 in sales. Those facts are anything but a flop, no ands, ifs or butts about that!

Go ahead and "spin those facts." <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

13569 is a hair over 75% of expected sales... The expected number was 18k, until it became obvious they were never going to sell that many. Not exactly a disaster, but far, far from a sales success. Compare that percentage of "expected" sales to those of the 64 model year GTO and Mustang!

No spin, just hard numbers.

pont3 · #17 01-07-2005, 09:19 AM

Many a negative sentiment have been voiced regarding the strong resemblance to past year's pontiacs and those who were initially turned off by the styling bought it because of the total package. Many of us actually LIKED the styling but probably would not have bought it if it were another FWD V6 coupe. Styling is only one factor when deciding on a vehicle and people will prioritize factors differently.

RandyW · #18 01-07-2005, 11:12 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR> That's what amazes me here more than anything else; the desperately nostalgic mania that has lots of old timers in its grip.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I'm 52 and I like the new GTO!

HUMBLER · #19 01-07-2005, 11:22 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by 455HOGT37:
13569 is a hair over 75% of expected sales... <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Hard / incorrect final sales numbers...

It was 87% of 18K go check earlier posts.

Trace · #20 01-07-2005, 07:09 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by pont3:
... Nobody wants this car... <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Huh? I think there's quite a number of folks here that "want this car". In fact, you couldn't coax this car away from me with a brothel full of college girls! This reminds me of my ol' Subaru SVX, another car nobody wanted. I bought mine for $7k under the original asking price - kept & loved it for over 7 yrs till I finally sold it w/ 150k to a guy who just "had to have one".