[1967Clone]

Originally Posted by 78w72

!!!!!DOUG'S SCHMOUG'S!!!!!!!

sorry to hear about everyones problems with dougs. i considered them when i bought headers but could not justify the outrageous price, why are they so expensive, there is no extra cost in manufacturing them compared to other quality headers. & from the looks of the pics they don't even fit alll that well, there is no reason for them to almost hit the control arm area. hedmans fit perfect & are a quality header.
i chose the uncoated hedmans that fit a 78 400 4 speed t/a. i then sandblasted the factory crappy paint off & coated them with por20 high heat header coating.....it works awsome. 2 years & 2000 miles later & they are almost like new still. if the header is prepped & cleaned right & the por 20 is applied & cured correct it last a very long time.

after reading this thread & many others like it i am SOOO glad i didnt pay hundreds for ceramicoat, it seems to be quite crappy. i paid $30 for the small can of por 20 & can still do another set of headers with whats left. this stuff is awsome & looks great too, i got the aluminum colored por20 & it almost looks like ceramicoat, they also have black.

Good deal, maybe I'll go that route as I am looking for headers or manifolds for my new 400.

[PunchT37]

Originally Posted by judgethis

I bought mine about a year ago, installed them about 6 months ago and they have rust on them also. Two months go I fired up and broke the motor in with them on and they seemed to rust even quicker. I only have about 2 hours of run time on them and they look like they've been on for a couple of years. After I broke the cam in, the car wouldnt idle right and found out the cam was wiped out. So I had to pull the motor and its back in the machine shop so I'm debating if I should send them out to get recoated. I was going to see if I could get anything done but it figures I cant find the reciept(of course I found all the other paperwork that came with the exhaust system). I bought mine from PY. I really like the fit and how easily they go in. I got the PYPES exhaust system to go with the headers and it sounds awesome. Cant wait to drive it. I think pertronix bought Doug's within the last year to year and a half. There was an article in Hot Rod about it and did a feature of how there made.

Remember, they won`t warranty the coating if you break in the motor on new headers. They want short heat cycles on new headers. So, use old headers to break in a new cam.

[ScottD3]

Crustysarge, what type of rust? Rust that happens over time caused by moister in the header, or outside rust that is caused by a bad coating. The rust you have looks like a coating problem not a old age rust problem. If that makes any sense to you. Ask a lawyer about it he will do a free consultation.

[TransAm525]

Your headers might not be rusting. I had the Hooker Super Competition header and side pipe exhaust system on my old 1982 Corvette, which was Jet Hot coated in the same sterling finish as yours. I had the same "rust" stains appear on my side tubes and collectors. It turns out the "rust" was actually road slush baked on. Anytime I drove the car in the rain, hit a pothole with water, etc., the stains would appear. When the dirty water hit the headers and side pipes, the heat from the exhaust boiled away the water and the dirt/oil was left in the form of a stain, which looked just like rust. I found Mother's aluminum polish took the stains right out and kept the coated parts shiny. Now if your finish starts to bubble, then I would send them back for a re-coat. It looks like most of your stains are the same as what I had, but the area in between the collector tubes appear to not have sufficient ceramic coverage, thus causing actual rusting in that particular area.

In my opinion, the ceramic finish is well wort the money. Header paint will only protect the outside of the tube, not the inside, thus allowing them to rust inside and outward. Ceramic finishes are applied inside and outside the header, which not only protect the metal from corrosion, but also retains the exhaust heat in the tube, thus reducing under hood temperatures and preventing exhaust heat damage to rubber and plastic parts under the hood over time.

[Old Goat Racer]

Originally Posted by quicksilver97ta

Great. I bought a pair for my 68 from PY in the fall last year. I thought I would have them on the car by now but they are still in a box in a closet. I just looked at them again as I have followed this post, no signs of rust.... yet.
Does this rust not show up until after you fire the engine?

Same story, bought mine from Butler, still look great...... in the trunk.

[Old Goat Racer]

Originally Posted by PunchT37

Remember, they won`t warranty the coating if you break in the motor on new headers. They want short heat cycles on new headers. So, use old headers to break in a new cam.

Going from d-ports to round ports, NOT an option.

[judgethis]

Mine did show some rust specs where all four tubes come together at the collector and showed what looked like slight surface rust at the flange before I even fired up the engine. My car sits outside on a cement slab under a car cover. I didnt know I couldn't break in an engine with new headers. I chalk that up as a learning experience. But I still like the fit of the headers and the ease of installation. Nothing hits and everything is installed.

[BP68bird]

quote:

TinjunTribe
Senior Member Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 129

Mergers and Consolidations

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

How many here have been through a merger/acquisition/buy out? One Co. buys another established or "growing" company that has good Brand Recognition. The new parent company doesn't always look for ways to make the product even better.....only more PROFITABLE.

How can they make it more profitable....oh, maybe get rid of long time employees who are paid highly that know what the H3ll they are doing, replace them with lower paid inexperienced people, and new management that is from the new parent company..................maybe outsource the coating process if it used to be done in house....skip a step in production that seems "uneeded" in the eyes of the new manager.......lot of variables that can save a buck here or there.

interesting that it coincides with Pertronix purchase. Guess we'll see how good their customer service is now too. "One time recoat".........so if they follow the same f'ed up process and it does it again you're SOL. Shame they even use that language, like they are doing you a favor.........

Tinjun tribe has it nailed. He forgot to mention "Customer service" is also always farmed out now.

[BP68bird]

Oops sorry, I didnt hi-light quote in blue?

[Don 79 TA]

78W72
those headders looks really nice good work

that sucks the problems you are having, and right now, customer service in america is out the door, along with family values, etc...

I've been tempted to get headders, and there is some good info here.....

[crustysarge]

Everyone needs to go back and look at the pictures. This is not road stain or road kill on the headers, it is rust bleeding through the coating. I am lucky PY is willing to reach an agreement with me because Pertronix couls care less. Tribe has it correct, mergers and buyouts have led to a product we trusted ending up into the hands of a company that could care less and sees only money. They lost me and two of my buddies who are now purchasing Hedmans.

[LawnJockey]

Originally Posted by quicksilver97ta

Great. I bought a pair for my 68 from PY in the fall last year. I thought I would have them on the car by now but they are still in a box in a closet. I just looked at them again as I have followed this post, no signs of rust.... yet.
Does this rust not show up until after you fire the engine?

I bought mine last fall waiting on my 428 rebuild. no rust yet. All I rear before these were the best! I don't want to install if this will be a problem

[crustysarge]

I received a new set and they have the same issue of not being polished around the tubes where they meet at the collector. Will swap but I just don't have a lot of faith they won't rust.

I see Dougs is not available at major suppliers and PY as well as Summit have none in stock (570) or 570R). Wonder what is going on? Hmm, I like to speculate, maybe they (Pertonix) went to a cheaper coater to save a buck and now it came back to bite them in the arse?

[Charlie Brengun]

good luck with the new ones, let us know if they start rusting as well or not..

i think i'm going to take my old headers sand blast them and put some paint like por15's factory exhaust manifold grey on there and see how long that holds... either that or try the anti-seize on the headers trick (never done so i don't know how that holds either).

[1967Clone]

Originally Posted by Charlie Brengun

good luck with the new ones, let us know if they start rusting as well or not..

i think i'm going to take my old headers sand blast them and put some paint like por15's factory exhaust manifold grey on there and see how long that holds... either that or try the anti-seize on the headers trick (never done so i don't know how that holds either).

What's the "anti-seize on headers trick?"

[Charlie Brengun]

this is muscl car's from nastyz28.com trick.. i can't find the pictures right now but his headers look real good even after a couple of years. he lives in cali though with lots of sun so i don't know how it holds up in areas with more rain and worse weather.

anyway ->


make sure tubes,flange and collector areas are clean of all paint and grease.now purchase a large bottle of anti-seize yes that's right anti-seize.with a cotton rag wipe the header completely with the coating probably 2 coats waiting 30 minutes between applications.next either using a blow torch or using your engines exh. heat after mounting on the heads .heat cycle them for 2 minutes or until they start to smoke.do this 3 times waiting 1/2 hour between heat cycles.once this has been done they will have the look of alumna-coated headers but for a cheaper price


edit -> found a picture which somewhat shows the headers with the anti-seize coating, http://i114.photobucket.com/albums/n...ar/Picture.jpg

[1967Clone]

Interesting!

[Charlie Brengun]

yeah i'm looking forward to giving it a try sometime and see how it holds up compared to painting headers.

[428PHIL]

Originally Posted by crustysarge

I received a new set and they have the same issue of not being polished around the tubes where they meet at the collector. Will swap but I just don't have a lot of faith they won't rust.

I see Dougs is not available at major suppliers and PY as well as Summit have none in stock (570) or 570R). Wonder what is going on? Hmm, I like to speculate, maybe they (Pertonix) went to a cheaper coater to save a buck and now it came back to bite them in the arse?

Maybe you should have them re-coated locally before you install and elminate the chance of rusting out again.

[Ccass]

Originally Posted by crustysarge

I received a new set and they have the same issue of not being polished around the tubes where they meet at the collector. Will swap but I just don't have a lot of faith they won't rust.

I see Dougs is not available at major suppliers and PY as well as Summit have none in stock (570) or 570R). Wonder what is going on? Hmm, I like to speculate, maybe they (Pertonix) went to a cheaper coater to save a buck and now it came back to bite them in the arse?

The ceramic coating is polished by a vibratory media process. The media can't get into the tight areas as well. When the ceramic is not polished it's easier for moisture to lay on the ceramic coating and eventually cause rust to start. Although ceramic is suppose to last forever, it is the norm for headers. My headers are starting to rust a little in several spots after 4 years of use. I've never taken the time to polish them and keep them clean. I'm sure that would have helped.

Ceramic coating is a dirty, hot, miserable job and epa regulations are causing Header mfg's to move production to Mexico. I'm not sure if this is the case with Doug's but I do know the coating operation is one of the reasons for the lack of stock.