[1980 TA]

I've got my motor back together and am working on the front accessories. When I pulled the motor, the power steering belt squealed bad.

With the motor on the stand, I can see the squealing is due to a pulley misalignment.

The crank pulley and the water pump pulley are spot on 5.75 inches to center from the machined face of the lower block.

The alternator pulley is perfectly aligned.

The power steering pully is 5.375 to center. It needs to move outward 3/8 of an inch.

The brackets and pulleys are from a 79 Pontiac 400. I've done a search on power steering pumps and have looked at the shared diagrams and everything is assembled correctly.

I know I replaced the pump at some point re using the original reservoir. The pulley is a press on pulley and it is seated flush with the shaft of the pump. Are there different lengths of pumps and it is possible that I got the wrong pump when I replaced it?

Can the pump be moved outward on the shaft with a puller to correct the alignment?

How close is the alignment from the factory? During one of the postings I read, there were some pics from a 1971 which made it look like the PS pulley sat closer to the block and was not perfectly aligned.

It looks like four 3/8 spacers will let me move the power steering pump outward easy enough without affecting the alternator alignment. The only downside I can see to this is slightly less friction between the upper and lower front brackets. Right now, they have full contact between the flat portions of each bracket and if I use spacers, there will be contact only between the spacers.

[78w72]

the pumps should be the same length for the later 70's year 400s. it is possible you got the wrong pump in the box when reman'd but unlikely. can you post some detailed pics of the pump to alt bracket assembly so others can see if theres anything obvious causing the misalignment? kind of hard to diagnose things like this without pics or being there to see in person.

if all the correct factory spacers are in place for the pump brackets & all is assembled right it should be in very close alignment, i have added a couple washers before to get the pulley angle perfect but it was spaced out right to begin with.

im pretty sure the pulley needs to be seated all all the way on the shaft, pulling it out 3/8" might allow it to work itself off eventually. if you cant figure out whats causing the issue, then adding some 3/8 spacers will work & wont really cause any damage or problems related to "friction", just be sure you tighten all the bolts down good & check them periodically that they arent working loose.

[Skip Fix]

My 78 has a press on pulley -could it be pressed on too far?

["QUICK-SILVER"]

About positive my alt and ps share the same pivot bolt. The long spacer, on the pivot bolt, fits between the alt and rear ps bracket. So to space the ps forward, the spacers would have to go between the pump and rear bracket.

Where is your 5.75" measurement hitting on your double groove crank and water pump pulleys? And is your alt belt running in the front or rear groove?

FWIW PS pulley usually goes on a little past flush. I've got a big hard washer that I use with my install tool to get the pulley on where it belongs.

Wish I could post pics. But since Verizon upped their G's I can take pics but can't send them with my old flip phone.

Clay

[Skip Fix]

About positive my alt and ps share the same pivot bolt. The long spacer, on the pivot bolt, fits between the alt and rear ps bracket. So to space the ps forward, the spacers would have to go between the pump and rear bracket.

Mine sure do.

[1980 TA]

Mine is a pressed on pulley. The simplest fix would be to pull it out 1/4 inch. This would help the alignment immensely.

My alt and ps share the same bolt. Any spacers would go between the rear bracket and pump pushing the pump towards the radiator.

The 5.75 measurement is to the center of the outermost (closest to radiator) pulley groove. This is the groove for the power steering as the alternator lines up perfectly with the middle groove. I have 3 pulleys as I have air conditioning.

I'll try to post some pics tonight.

[1980 TA]

Here's some pics. Hopefully they help. The PS pulley definitely needs to move forward as it rubs the alternator belt.

[78w72]

hard to tell with the view point & angle of the pics, are they sideways? i straightened out the 1st pic just to let others see the alignment of the alt/ps pump, maybe a couple more straight on pics with all the belts on will help?

almost looks like the bottom of the alt is tilted towards the engine, is the long alt spacer the right one & length? is it the right alt? the alt itself looks kinda weird, like the 2 halves of the case arent fully seated & bolted together all the way. & where is the elect connector located? should be on the drivers side near the top. is the alt pulley correct, almost looks like its too far forward compared to the ones on my cars. heres a pic of mine to show there should be about a 3/8" space between the alt & p/s belts.

sorry those are all just guesses based on what i see in the pics. looks like the brackets are arranged right but again hard to tell without seeing them in person. also need to confirm all the pulleys are installed right, if the crank pulley or damper isnt spaced right it will though everything else off. look at the GM service manual diagrams & confirm everything is installed right, those p/s bracket spacers can get mixed up. should be able to figure it out with a little more investigation.

["QUICK-SILVER"]

The comparison pic, that 78w72 posted, shows where the problem is. The space from PS front bracket to pulley is a bunch closer on the OP's pump.

Appears the pump snout is too short.





Clay

['ol Pinion head]

Good possibity the front stamped steel bracket on the PS pump is a 301 only piece. Notice how the alt long bolt & PS pump don't seem to be square.

If you can disassemble & take pics of the front & rear PS brackets, I can confirm what they actually are. Am deep stocked in original '71+ brackets & pulleys though '67-70 pieces are my top sellers.

[78w72]

Originally Posted by "QUICK-SILVER"

The comparison pic, that 78w72 posted, shows where the problem is. The space from PS front bracket to pulley is a bunch closer on the OP's pump.

Appears the pump snout is too short.

Clay

good eye, looks like the assembly of the front p/s bracket might be off or spacers wrong or in the wrong place or its the wrong bracket/pump for that application. but you dont want to slide the pulley out on the shaft any to remedy the issue, it needs to be fully seated. something else is causing the issue & that alt looks very out of alignment & possibly the case is not fully seated or clocked right since the connector is in the wrong location.. at least for mid to late 70's firebirds.

also just to mention, the upper tab for adjusting the p/s belt is tweaked a little on my bracket but still functions fine, it might throw off how the spacing looks in the pic but everything else is correct & perfectly aligned, never had any slipping or belt coming off issues even with lots of 5500-6000rpm drag strip runs.

[1980 TA]

Here are pics of the front bracket and rear bracket.

Front bracket spacer measured .600 inches and the rear bracket spacer measured .240 inches.

It looks like O'Reilly has a replacement pump in stock. Going to run to town and see if it has a longer snout.

[78w72]

being your user name is 1980TA, what engine was in the car originally, 301? the 301 pump might be different dimensions than a 400 pump since the brackets are different. when you replaced the pump maybe they gave you a 1980 301 pump if you told them the year of the car??

[1980 TA]

Car was a 1979 400 4 speed car. As I got to rebuilding it, the body was shot and did not have T Tops so I found a 1980 TA rust free shell. The numbers matching block was sold to someone doing a resto who valued the correct code when I swapped to the 455. The 400 front accessories all went to the 455. The only thing 1980 on the car is the body shell. Everything from the 400 4speed car was switched over to avoid these problems if I could. I swapped all of the AC parts, wiring harness, etc so that I could order parts for a 1979 400 4 speed car.

The only thing original to the 1980 is the upper dash which is nice so that I have the dual front speakers.

I'm pretty sure that the problem started when I swapped PS pumps. I didn't catch it at the time as I just didn't know as much and didn't think to check pump length. I figured what the parts store gave me was correct as it fit the reservoir. I remember having to swap the reservoir and fitting the large O ring. I usually write everything in a journal logging the date and mileage when I swap something but I cannot find anything about swapping the pump. It has been at least 6 years ago as I swapped it at the old house.

I do have a replacement pump coming from O'Reilly and it should be hear tomorrow by 8 so I can compare the pump length with that one.

I looked at shimming the brackets but that won't work as the large C bracket will hit the reservoir.

Thanks to all that have taken time to help. It looks like GM has at least two pump shaft lengths and I may have gotten a short one. I'll update tomorrow when I can compare it to a replacement pump.

[1980 TA]

I don't think it is a pump issue as I checked a pump and reservoir from O"reilly and it was the same distance from the mounting surface to the end of the shaft as the one I have. I checked a bare pump from Napa and it was the same distance from the mounting surface to the end of the shaft.

No what I found odd was the complete pump from O'Reilly had a metric output instead of a flare. The bare pump from Napa had a flare fitting. My current pump is a flare.

That would leave the pulley as the possible culprit??? The markings on my pulley are 72642-A, 3337, and 3870089 (but the 89 is larger font). It would appear that the 89 is not part of the 38700 as it is on a slightly different plane.

The only options I see now are spacing the pulley out slightly to align things or see if I can come up with a different pulley. With my pulley flat on the work table and measuring from the table to the front face of the pulley, it is 1.600 inches if someone has a pulley to compare with.

[78w72]

the pics i posted & what "quick-silver" mentioned is still an issue, the back of the pulley is much closer to the bracket & pump than mine is. i have some spare pumps with pulleys i can try to measure if someone else cant do it sooner.

& not that its part of the alignment problem, but have you looked at the alt regarding what i mentioned? pulley looks way out of alignment, case looks like its not bolted together all the way & the alt or case is clocked wrong... where do the 12v wire & 2 prong connector go?

[400 Lemans]

https://www.chicagomusclecarparts.co...ternator-parts I believe you have the spacers on right but check the diagram anyway. Large spacer on the left front of pump and small spacer on left rear of pump.

[1980 TA]

Thanks for the link to chicago muscle car parts. It looks like I am missing the rear bracket for the alternator. That won't change my power steering alignment but I always felt that the rear of the alternator should have been supported.

Spacers are in the correct position.