[Rlfehl]

64 GTO 389 tri-power. Car has 1500 miles since frame off. It has run great. It has a Pertronix Flamethrower III ignition. Driving it a couple weeks ago and pushed in the clutch turning a corner and it died and wouldn't start. Got it to my shop and started looking at it and it has spark, 6.1 lbs of fuel pressure, and good compression. I had a GM coil on it that ohmed out ok. When talking to Pertronix, the tech guy said to put a flame thrower 3 coil on it. Tried that and no difference. He said there was no way to test the ignition module but if there was spark then it was doing it's job. Checked the breaker plate for ground, that is good. It has spark at the plugs. Average of about 160 lbs of compression. 12v at the coil. I ran a jumper wire from the battery to the coil, still no fire. I had carb kits on my shelf so I freshened up the carbs. I have fuel pressure and accelerator pump fuel. I am going to buy some points and condenser to see if that fires it, but it has spark now.

It has to be something simple but i am at a loss right now so any suggestions are appreciated.

[Schurkey]

"Spark AT the plugs" is not "spark across the plug gap, at the right time".

You say you have "spark", you claim to have fuel, you have compression.

Verify initial timing (roll pin on distributor gear sheared? Distributor spun in the block?) Check for fouled plugs.

Lastly, make sure your gasoline will actually burn--no water at the bottom of the tank.

[Rlfehl]

When I aid spark at the plugs, that was watching the spark jump across the gap. I just did 5 plugs but if they had it the other 3 wouldn't keep it from starting. I have watched the rotor spin while I was turning it over so that s good. I had not thought about water in the gas, I'll have to check on that. Thanks for the reply.

[Rlfehl]

I have had the valve cover off and watch the distributor and the rocker arms on #1 and that is ok. I am getting no backfiring or any kind of firing for that matter. Thanks for the reply.

[lust4speed]

Bump engine to where the timing mark on the balancer is between 0 and 12° BTDC. Then pull the distributor cap and check that the rotor is either pointing at #1 or #6 terminal. Anywhere else and timing has moved. If you want to take a little more time, then pull #1 plug and put your finger in the hole and bump the engine until the compression pushes your finger away and then bump it a little more until you are at the 0-12 mark and then the rotor needs to be pointing to #1 terminal.

Although never underestimate the number of ways a Pertronix can leave you alongside the road.

[Schurkey]

Originally Posted by lust4speed

pull #1 plug and put your finger in the hole and bump the engine until the compression pushes your finger away ...

NO!!! Put your finger OVER the hole, NOT "IN" the hole.

Finding the piston dome will not make you happy.

Originally Posted by lust4speed

Although never underestimate the number of ways a Pertronix can leave you alongside the road.

True. I won't own one. Same with Mallory Unilite/E-spark.

[77 TRASHCAN]

Although never underestimate the number of ways a Pertronix can leave you alongside the road.[/QUOTE]

My understanding, from reading here is to be aware of the Pertronix "conversion" kit. Many here have had these leave them standing on the road.

AND, I've seen some folks use the Pertronix complete distributor, They seem to be good to use. Any one object to this thought?

Before you attempt your next start, I'd remove all the plugs. make sure they are dry. If not, spray the m with carb cleaner spray and blow them off with air.
Might be a good idea to spin the engine ove with all plugs, JUST to make sure you don't have a crazy flooding issue. Of course disconnect any power to distributor, just to be safe...

[steve25]

Having spark and having it at the right time are two different things.
Does the motor have a solid ground back to the battery?

Does the distributor body have a solid ground to the block?

It doesn’t hurt to take 10 minutes to crimp up a ring to ring wire just to cover that base.

[Rlfehl]

Yes, it has a good ground. I actually ran an extra wire from the dist to 1 of the four ground straps. Thanks for the reply.

[steve25]

Be sure that the motor continues to have voltage to the coil not only when the key is in the crank position, but in the run position also.

[Rlfehl]

It does, I ran a wire from the battery to the coil, 12v, nothing. Pertronix requires constant 12v.

[Formulas]

What color is the spark that your seeing?

either ohm out dist cap or replace the coil output path may be compromised

[Rlfehl]

The spark is white. I replaced the coil with the Pertronix Flamethrower 3.

[Rlfehl]

I found a set of points and a condenser today. I will put them in tomorrow and see what happens. I filled the carb with new gas today and still nothing.

[steve25]

You posted that a frame off restoration was done on the vehicle, did that include the motor and if so did you do that motor overhaul?

while your out getting the points on condenser to stuff in pick up a can of starting eiher.
If the motor still does not run after the points are in then open the choke and the throttle and give a blast of that into the Manifold.

If the motor does not kick real good if not even run for 2 to 3 seconds then for whatever reason your Cam timing is off dispite the motor not backfiring!

[mgarblik]

Originally Posted by steve25

You posted that a frame off restoration was done on the vehicle, did that include the motor and if so did you do that motor overhaul?

while your out getting the points on condenser to stuff in pick up a can of starting eiher.
If the motor still does not run after the points are in then open the choke and the throttle and give a blast of that into the Manifold.

If the motor does not kick real good if not even run for 2 to 3 seconds then for whatever reason your Cam timing is off dispite the motor not backfiring!

The OP said he did a compression test and the results were around 160 PSI. I would think the cam timing is close enough to run the engine or at least "try" to run. I would pull out the distributor and have a close look at the gear, pin and relationship of the rotor to cap at TDC. Although I would agree that generally, it should pop, backfire, or do something if the gear was failing, it's not a given. 1500 miles is in the ballpark for a gear failure if there was an issue initially. Although I have personally never had a failure of a Pertronix component, there are thousands of people who have. Being electronic and made in China, their are many ways they can fail and leave you stranded. Installing good old points and condenser even as just a diagnostic tool is a good idea as well. Good luck with it.

[geeteeohguy]

After 50 years of working on cars, 42 of them as a pro, I still can't understand why people remove perfectly good factory parts and install inferior ones to 'upgrade' their cars.
Throw the Pertronix into the trash can, re-install the points and condenser, and drive off into the sunset worry free for the rest of your life. Seriously.

[72projectbird]

Originally Posted by geeteeohguy

After 50 years of working on cars, 42 of them as a pro, I still can't understand why people remove perfectly good factory parts and install inferior ones to 'upgrade' their cars.
Throw the Pertronix into the trash can, re-install the points and condenser, and drive off into the sunset worry free for the rest of your life. Seriously.

Pertronix is certified garbage, but points ignition isn't the end all be all that some claim it to be.

[Rlfehl]

Finally got it figured out. The rotor was arcing through and the spark was not going out the cap. Thanks for all of the replys.

[Schurkey]

Originally Posted by Formulas

OP said spark is white, does that not alarm anyone?

I could not care less what the spark "looks" like. Trying to judge spark power by color is a fool's errand, in part because the arc length of a casual test is typically not great enough.

If a ballast-resistor style ignition (Points, early Chrysler electronic) will reliably fire a conventional spark tester when the ignition coil is hot from use and lightly misted with water from a squirt-bottle, that's good enough for me.

If a non-ballast-resistor ignition (HEI, for example) will reliably fire a spark tester calibrated for HEI, under those same conditions, I consider it good.

Attached photos are of my favorite style of spark-tester, but there are multiple vendors and other styles. The HEI tester has a recessed center electrode making a longer gap the spark must jump. Both testers require the spark to jump all the way to the rim of the tester--easily visible and with a hearty "snap", nicely-calibrated to the expected maximum voltage of each kind of ignition system.

Spark testers that make a light-bulb glow are WORTHLESS. You want to see the actual spark arc.

Originally Posted by Rlfehl

It has spark at the plugs... ...it has spark now.

Originally Posted by Rlfehl

Finally got it figured out. The rotor was arcing through and the spark was not going out the cap.

You sure? How did you ever get spark at the plug-end of the plug wires if the rotor had failed?