[dataway]

Since I have a small metal fab shop I thought I'd give a try building an AR15.

Already purchased an 80% lower from "80% Arms" typical machined 6061 piece, ordered the lower parts package also ... trigger parts etc.

Any advice? Looking to keep aesthetics costs down, don't need a "pretty" rifle. Will probably go for a long barrel, perhaps Heavy barrel if that is an option. I was thinking 24" but I don't know at what point barrel length on an AR stops paying off in accuracy. Specially on a build like this.

So still to buy ... all the upper stuff, barrel, stock etc. I also have a book coming on building/maintaining AR15s.

Basically looking for advice on parts, sources, problems I might run into. I'll be doing the machining without a jig, will probably make my own template of some sort based on blue print drawings. Will be using a manual BP mill.

So, if anyone else has done this ... please feel free to give your two cents.
Thanks

[beertracker]

This link should get you started. http://www.itstactical.com/warcom/fi...ools-required/

[Bills Auto Works]

The guy who built mine is really heavy into it & I know he gets a lot of his pieces from Core Rifle in Florida. They are on the web as well.
Bill

[beertracker]

20" vs 24" barrel accuracy is a good question. I suppose it depends on the application; bench shooting, what distance you want to reach out to. The 24" barrel will have a longer sight radius and be heavier on the barrel end.

http://www.predatormastersforums.com...&Number=565539

[dataway]

Thanks for the input and links ... which I am saving to peruse as reference material.

The plan is for this to be a poor mans semi-auto varminter. I want both a varmint rifle and a semi-auto center fire ... figured I would try to combine them.

Looking for reasonable accuracy out to 150-200 meters. I'll read that forum topic and see what I can learn.

[skunkwerks]

Originally Posted by dataway

Thanks for the input and links ... which I am saving to peruse as reference material.

The plan is for this to be a poor mans semi-auto varminter. I want both a varmint rifle and a semi-auto center fire ... figured I would try to combine them.

Looking for reasonable accuracy out to 150-200 meters. I'll read that forum topic and see what I can learn.

Just finished my build.
get an 18" 1:8 or 1:7 twist barrel for 150-200 yards using 157 grain bullet. 20" barrel is for target shooting and competition. 24" is way to long for varmints on an AR15 build. 18" barrel will get you out to 3-4 hundred with the right scope.
Get a Timney drop in trigger assembly. Worth every penny. Try to get one of the new enhanced uppers with integrated hand guard if you can afford that. Great upgrade for not much more money.
rest is very standard parts.
Places to look are
Cheaper than dirt
Webyshops
AeroPrecision
Midway USA

Look for sales on what you need. If you are patient you can build one real cheap that will look on the custom side.

[dataway]

How about a heavy barrel .... I'm not concerned about the extra weight, just looking for the most accuracy I can get from a home built, reasonably priced AR.

Also, I have a good AR Assembly Guide (Walt Kuleck) ... but I can tell I'm going to need a book on "building" .... something that explains the various differences between "rifle length" "carbine length", what parts match up with what other parts ... gas block sizes, etc, and a whole bunch of other etc's which I am just now familiarizing myself with. Trying to avoid buying any parts twice.

So far I plan on a "rifle" length AR .. and want to avoid buying mismatched parts. So a book that discusses the various options available and how to match them with the appropriate parts. Since I have a good milling machine, lathe, various nice metal working and measuring tools I hope to do as much of the work myself as possible. I see a lot of various parts and tools available that I could probably easily make myself. Not to save money, but just like with a Pontiac engine ... the right tools, some patience and dedication to your work and you can usually do a bit better than "off the shelf" quality work.

[bendutro]

I shot an AR in competition out to 900 yards. Heavy barrel is recommended unless it's a 'walking around gun' then stick to carbine and lighter profile. ARs are inherently accurate, for 200y and under a 16 in lightweight carbine is my choice. For bench duty get a 20 in from White Oak Armory.

[dataway]

I was leaning toward a 20" heavy barrel after sifting through the information provided so far.... it would rarely see much carrying around. Is a 1.5 - 2" group at 200 meters with regular ammo within reason? Here in the Northeast you can rarely see farther than 200 meters

[Stuckinda60s]

Originally Posted by skunkwerks

Just finished my build.
get an 18" 1:8 or 1:7 twist barrel for 150-200 yards using 157 grain bullet. 20" barrel is for target shooting and competition. 24" is way to long for varmints on an AR15 build. 18" barrel will get you out to 3-4 hundred with the right scope.
Get a Timney drop in trigger assembly. Worth every penny. Try to get one of the new enhanced uppers with integrated hand guard if you can afford that. Great upgrade for not much more money.
rest is very standard parts.
Places to look are
Cheaper than dirt
Webyshops
AeroPrecision
Midway USA

Look for sales on what you need. If you are patient you can build one real cheap that will look on the custom side.

I'm assuming that you're talking about a .308 if you're using 157 grain bullets. Are you guys both talking about the same thing?

Seeing that dataway is from NY, I can understand him wanting o build his own.

[dataway]

Yeah, in NY it's kind of the only option if you actually want an AR. If you have two .223 in the barrel at the same time you can get to 157 grains

[dataway]

Just bought a DRO to install on my mill to do the machining on the lower receiver. Going real slow on this so I don't screw up the lower and have to buy another one.

[dataway]

Any suggestions for a rifle length buffer tube assembly ... I see lots of options out there ... looks like a lot of them have an adjustable length tube?? I'm just looking for a high quality or mil-spec OEM type rifle length buffer tube assembly.
Thanks,

[Inogame]

A wise man once advised me to get the shortest barrel you can that feeds reliably.
If you want a long heavy barrel that is certainly your choice, there are many applications where that will favor you. However, 200 yds consistently and accurately is well within the capabilities of any non-NFA AR15.

Personally, I'd never go over 16in in an AR15 platform, mid length gas tube.
If you are set on a rifle length gas tube then 18in is the way to go.

Free float barrel. Upgrade the trigger. You can buy a lower build kit with or wthout the trigger, I suggest without and buy a Geissele SSA-E. If the Geissele is too high of cotton go ALG Defense.
I know you said weight wasn't a concern, but I'd suggest a lighter keymod handguard.

You didn't mention and spend range, or I didn't read carefully enough, so I'm not sure how far you want to go but past finishing your 80%-er out there isn't really any machining to do.
I've seen $500 budget builds and $3K, Cadillac builds... none of them would make me comfortable 200yds in the wrong direction.

[dataway]

I know most of my use would be 200 yards or less, but I was hoping for the extra accuracy and muzzle velocity of a longer barrel for future eventualities. I figure since weight and handling are not really an issue for me that a longer barrel would provide accuracy both close and far. And to be honest, the noise that a shorter barrel makes can be pretty tough on the ears. I'm not married to anything yet. I do want a full length, non-adjustable stock (I'm in NY you know).

Yes, I do want a free floating barrel also and since I can't install in muzzle devices, or even a threaded barrel in NY I was going to opt for a bull barrel for the mass and accuracy.

I want an upper with no carry handle, no sights on the barrel, it would only ever be used with optics of some kind. Hand guard is still up in the air. So what would that be ... A2 stock ... A4 upper?

I'd like to keep price to around $1000 ... I realize for that I could have bought one, but again ... in NY, building avoids some of the hassles.

I've finished machining the lower, turned out nice, pocket is a few thousands wider than I wanted but still within mil-spec. I've installed the trigger, bolt catch, magazine release, selector, pivot pin, take down pin. Ordered a new hammer .... the cheap hammer was machined such that the J-spring intruded to far into the pin bore and it's impossible to get the pin through .... it was like halfway in the bore.

Drop in trigger group might be in the cards in the future ... in fact, if I like how the whole thing turns out I might buy a higher quality finished lower and do the NY paperwork for it. Right now I'm still in the experimental stage.

Probably my biggest question right now is sourcing quality parts ... I just don't know the brands/sellers well enough to know where to go for decent mil-spec parts. And the Colt parts are a bit pricey.

I welcome ALL advice and information as I'm totally new to this type of firearm.

For the most part I'm working towards ... what I guess you would call a "de militarized" AR ... a semi-auto, varmint rifle of sorts.

[Inogame]

Thanks for reminding me you were NY. That's a fair point I should have paid closer attention.

The accuracy of an AR15 is really in the Upper. That's where sight alignment chamber and the barrel is. The lower is all grip and trigger.
I suppose if the lower is way off it would have an effect but it would have to be really out of spec.

I put an MK12 Mod 0 together some years back, and even though it breaks my rule above of the shortest barrel possible I'll be damned if it isn't one of my favorites.
I should confess I own 5 AR variants currently. From 14.5in to 20in.

Keeping to $1K should field you a very nice AR, and you have great timing as the market is currently flooded with inventory. A couple of my builds happened at the worst possible time...
I'm assuming your budget does not include glass? High quality optics can easily double the build price.

I go back to your range expectations, irons are more than capable for your usual expectations. I'd hold off till you are consistently stretching out then go ahead and add some glass. Daniel defense still makes the nicest flip sights I've seen, I have them on all my flat tops, even with glass. I have a thing where I run BUIS on everything, even my bolt gun.

I have 3 full length nonadjustable buttstocks, one is the Magpul PRS the others are basic A2s... the A2s are lighter and honestly I like them more. I bought the PRS for my first build and I was in the more is better mindset. It's a very nice piece, I just find I don't need it. Palmetto State Armory used to sell stocks and buffer tubes/springs in a kit all milspec for a very reasonable price.

You want a flattop upper, they have some very nice monolithic uppers available now where the handguard is integral to the upper receiver. If I were building one today that'd be the direction I'd go.

Nice quality mil-spec Bolt Carrier group is all you really need functionally.. google BCM.
Don't skimp on the barrel. they guys above had good suggestions on twist rate. 1-7 or 1-8 twist.
I don't know how much you shoot but the higher the twist rate the heavier pill your rifle will like.

If you will be buying 55gr from Walmart most times go 1-8, if you know you will be looking out for the 72-75gr more than 1-7.
You may reload yourself, I don't know... I could be telling you stuff you already know. I'm just trying to rattle off the stuff to think about.
Tighter the twist and heavier the pill the bullet should stay stable longer over distance.

I've heard of guys having issues with light projectiles in 1-7 twist barrels, getting key-holing and other instability due to the light bullet and fast twist. I say I hear that, because I've never had an issue personally, so take that for what you will.
1-8 twist is considered an "all around" twist rate.

Gas block... make sure you pay attention to what you buy, clamp on vs pin. You have machining capabilities so pinning a block is likely something you can handle, I do not have machining capabilities so I had to buy twice.

[dataway]

Thanks for all the info.

I was planning on 1 in 8 ... figure that covers the middle ground ... I'll be using mostly the typical 55 gr stuff.

No I didn't include any kind of optics in the $1000 .... was hoping to find something suitable for around $300 that would work for me at 200 yards shooting pesky small animals.

What about a picatinny rail system? I like the versatility of that setup. What considerations would have early in the build if I wanted to go that route? Floating barrel compatible? Suitable for a 20" barrel?

Yep, the most expensive component I will probably purchase for the firearm itself will be the barrel. I want a matched barrel/bolt with the head space and such already taken care of. Mostly likely steel instead of SS .... don't know enough about chrome bore to make a decision on that yet. In all likelihood the rifle will NOT see a lot of rounds, very little if any rapid fire. More concerned with the quality and accuracy of the barrel as opposed to durability in a "combat" scenario.

Was hoping to find a decent barrel/bolt combo of suitable quality for around $300. Bear Creek seems to have a lot of options.

[dataway]

OK, after looking at the rail system I see it appears to attached to the hand guard, or barrel OD etc. Even see a picatinny machined gas block.

Jeez, lots to learn.

[Inogame]

Check out brownells, Midway, Pametto St armory, BCM. Look through the assembled uppers. I know you wan tto build yours, but you can get an idea of what you are looking for by looking at what others are putting together.

It'll send you on a path anyway.
You'll find that similar things keep popping up. That will give you something to search on and read reviews of.

It helps narrow things down at least.

[bluebandit]

Lots of good advice above. Palmetto State usually has some good buys on uppers already assembled and also sells individual parts. This guy in TN sells some great barrels http://www.AR15Performance.com. Another good addition would be an adjustable gas block. The majority of ARs are over gassed, with the adj. block you can tune the action to the load you are using leading to less wear and tear on your rifle and brass.