[tom s]

with ALL due respect for EVERYONE on this post.I cant even think about going back to 44 year old tech!Raced one when they were the fad and pulled it and NEVER went back.IF and that is a big IF,I wanted to go to a auto,it would be a T-400.That day however is when 4 speeds are banned and someone removes my left foot!LOL,Tom

[Jack Gifford]

Originally Posted by zbuickman

... Here is one of the big sources for the dual range...

Darn, you got me all excited, thinking you'd found an actual "source" for built-up Dual-Range Hydramatics- when you were just linking to a forum that has some talk about them!
I agree with stevep, that a Dual-Range is the way to go to build a really solid high-performance Hydramatic. But, having said that, I'm not sure I'd recommend it, as it's pretty expensive to do these days.

[stevep]

It is pretty expensive and it is actually 1930's technology. But if you want a solid older automatic trans, it is the Dual Range all the way over the Dual Coupling.

But if you want a solid automatic that parts are readily available and can be repaired almost anywhere, than the 400 wins.

But the Dual Coupling IS my favorite automatic transmission.

[zbuickman]

Originally Posted by pontiac jack

Darn, you got me all excited, thinking you'd found an actual "source" for built-up Dual-Range Hydramatics- when you were just linking to a forum that has some talk about them!
I agree with stevep, that a Dual-Range is the way to go to build a really solid high-performance Hydramatic. But, having said that, I'm not sure I'd recommend it, as it's pretty expensive to do these days.

Im guessing you misssed this link in there. not really a souurce but a how to build. there is no source anymore that Ive found. B&M sold the tooling @ 81' for the Hydro stick.http://www.rodnkustom.com/rocketeers...tic/index.htmlI dont want a 400 in there. no offense but if it came to a 400 Id rig a t-56 in there. I just cant have something Normal Id rather people walk away from my cars goin at least it will be remembered. instad of lost in the shuffle. Thanks for the input, off to research some more.

[Poncho60]

stevep--

So if the intermediate coupling is a major source of failure on the dual coupling super hydro, are there any performance "symptoms" particular to that mode of failure---anything to watch or listen for? Any other common sources of trouble? I notice occassionally on my 60 that the first shift isn't always consistent------seems too soon on occassion. Thx for any feedback.

FWIW I never would have dreamed that this thread would generate so many responses-----thanks everyone for all the comments!

[PITTSBURGH 64]

Brent,
Do attend Norwalk? I'll be there this year and I'll be glad to take you for a ride.

I wonder how much less friction there is in a 2.56 rear end compared to a 4.56 rear end?

Poncho, excellent thread!!!!

[stevep]

Poncho,
If the internal coupling fails, you will only have 1st and 3rd. The coupling gives you 2nd and 4th.
(One way to consider this trans is a 2 speed trans with a 2 speed tourque converter. The internal coupling replaced the front clutch on the Dual Range for smoother shifts, as the Dual Range would always "snap your neck" on the 1-2 shift and customers did not like that.)
If your 1-2 shift is early sometimes, I would check the TV linkage at the carb first to see if it is sloppy or binding. If not it could be a problem with the valve body or govenor.

Jeff,
I hope that you STAY in Norwalk this year and NOT drive back and forth. Get your room NOW. There are plenty of places in Willard OH, which is about 20 minutes away, at VERY reasonable rates. If you stay, that's more time that you can spend there. And don't forget the Friday night PY BBQ! Think like an Italian (me) for a change!

I also agree that this is an excellant thread!

[Jack Gifford]

Originally Posted by zbuickman

... there is no source anymore ...

It's still possible for anyone to build a HydroStick. The Hi-Rank book spells out every single detail (dimensions, procedures, etc.) of machining required on original parts, and the "wear" items (clutch discs, bushings, etc.) are still all available. And, of course, "core" transmissions aren't too difficult to find. Just money and time...

[PITTSBURGH 64]

Jack,
Can the hydro stick be built for a street car with softer shifts?
Damn would I love to have a shifter controlling all the gears!
Do you install a longer manual valve to give the extra shift point?

[Bill Hanlon]

The Hi-Rank book that Jack refers to has a number of modifications, but in general it says to do them all, without explaining what each individual one does.

[PITTSBURGH 64]

Bill, Where can I pick up one of these books?

Are you related to the POCI tech advisor in Smoke Signals who passed in August?
Poor guy, his tractor flipped over and killed him.

[stevep]

Jeff, they are not written in Polish!

[PITTSBURGH 64]

How about backwards English then? My uncle Ziggy was a enigma code breaker you know....................

[stevep]

LOL!! Maybe he knew my cousin Vinny??

[zbuickman]

Originally Posted by PITTSBURGH 64

Brent,
Do attend Norwalk? I'll be there this year and I'll be glad to take you for a ride.

I wonder how much less friction there is in a 2.56 rear end compared to a 4.56 rear end?

Poncho, excellent thread!!!!

no but thankyou for the offer. currently the only hydro Ive had is a roto. And it was junk. Funny thing is theres a mid fifttys caddy sitting next to a barn. four houses down. Been there since I was a kid. my parents say it been parked since at least 68' May have to go talk to them.....mabey theyll sell. That I would put a 400 in.but Ill bet the frame and floors Are GONE.

Edit: I just looked at some photoguides..... umm I dont think that car is going to be for sale its a 53' Eldorado. rare beyond rare........

[Bill Hanlon]

Originally Posted by PITTSBURGH 64

Bill, Where can I pick up one of these books?

Mine is pretty fragile or I'd take the staples out, scan it and put it back together. If you'd like, the Hanlon Lending Library could mail it to you for a few weeks. Others on this forum have been good to me lately (thanks SteveP) so the least I should do is pass on the good will.

The book is good late night reading. I picked it up on eBay a few years back.

Originally Posted by PITTSBURGH 64

Are you related to the POCI tech advisor in Smoke Signals who passed in August?
Poor guy, his tractor flipped over and killed him.

Not that I am aware of, but it sounds like something that is in my genetic makeup.

[PITTSBURGH 64]

Bill thank you, I may just take you up on it someday.

But for now I'm going to hunt for one on e-bay. I'm busy with the factory manual learning all the circuits and different parts.

Glad to hear it wasn't a family member. I think a Pontiac guy on a tractor could be most of us.

[Jack Gifford]

Originally Posted by PITTSBURGH 64

... Can the hydro stick be built for a street car with softer shifts?... Do you install a longer manual valve to give the extra shift point?

As Bill Hanlon pointed out, it's critical that all the modifications be designed as a package. Timing of individual actions is more important than in newer transmissions that employ sprags. But, having said that, I was quite happy driving my HydroStick on the street with normal TV-pressure link to the throttle, unlike some drag machines that had the TV-pressure locked at maximum. Yeah, the shifts were brutal with a lot of throttle, but were "acceptable" at light throttle, at least to me.
First gear position is enabled by machining a new notch in the valve body's detent-sector-plate, between Reverse and the original 'Low', along with modifying the guts of the valve body accordingly- which I didn't have the "joy" of doing, since I simply bought a completely modified valve body from Hydromotive.

[PITTSBURGH 64]

Will the 55-56 dual range fit a 59 389 block?

This gear indicator must of been custom made.

[Bill Hanlon]

Originally Posted by PITTSBURGH 64

Will the 55-56 dual range fit a 59 389 block?

You'd have to use the flywheel from the 55-56. If I remember correctly, the dimensions of the flange on the crankshaft are different, but I don't remember which is bigger, the early or late crankshaft. If I were to guess, I'd guess the late crank had a larger flange.