[Dragncar]

Originally Posted by slowbird

I'm willing to bet he didn't actually get that

Not sure what to make of that. There is a post from him somewhere here where he mentions that. Back when he was doing a lot of Pontiac stuff he had a 459 CNC program for HPs.
In those days he had that Pro Port pump gas engine near 1000HP, Mikes E heads that made more power than your Barton High Ports with a like build, They went 414cfm, highest I know of and were not even flowed the last 2 times he worked on them.
And that set of High Ports of Giro,s that inspired Mike to go with Marcella High Ports.
Giros had the valves in stock location and Mike told me himself he thought John could get 480cfm with the valves moved around.
Then there were the 502cfm @ .850 lift Tigers he did.
For awhile it sure seemed like one guy had the best Pontiac E head, Pro Port, High Port and Tiger head. All done with welding, no stinking epoxy to leak later.
Not sure I would doubt anything he has done.


Who bought Giros top end with Mikes BOP. And whatever happened to Giro ?
That guy was a blast.

[slowbird]

You can believe what you want but I will still bet money he didn't get that cfm. Not without moving valves which he never did. I am very familiar with HP heads and what they are capable of. Find that post where he says that. Also I talked to Mike and Giro quite a bit back then and seen the heads.

[PAUL K]

I've worked on John M's 460 cfm Hi-ports. I'm sure they'll make a ton of power but weren't a whole bunch different than another pair of Hi-ports we were working on that made record power. Those latter Hi-ports flowed less than 460 cfm.

Giro is doing well and working on a first Gen Firebird to put his Marcella/Brown bullet in.

[PAUL K]

Originally Posted by Dragncar

Not sure what to make of that. There is a post from him somewhere here where he mentions that. Back when he was doing a lot of Pontiac stuff he had a 459 CNC program for HPs.
.

Any idea how many Marcella Hi-ports are out there?

Wilcox used to claim some big numbers from E-heads.

Originally Posted by Dragncar

In those days he had that Pro Port pump gas engine near 1000HP,

Didn't Marcella's E-heads outpower his Pro-ports?

Originally Posted by Dragncar

Mikes E heads that made more power than your Barton High Ports with a like build...

Not sure how you compare those two builds. Wasn't Mike's like 70 CID bigger?

Originally Posted by Dragncar

And that set of High Ports of Giro,s that inspired Mike to go with Marcella High Ports.
.

I thought Mike inspired Giro to go with Hi-ports... But could be wrong

[slowbird]

Originally Posted by PAUL K

Not sure how you compare those two builds. Wasn't Mike's like 70 CID bigger?

Lol ya the two engines are very comparable

70ci, more compression, dry sump to name a few.

[Stan Weiss]

Boy how time flies. This was over 10 years ago. What I have is 481 ci. Also Barry's dyno produced some real /not funny numbers.

Stan

[GOAT8U2]

For a Ponti head newb like me that reads a thread like this...

What's the most a High Port cfm has shown without moving the valve?

Is the Tiger 2 the newest version or is there something coming out after the new foundry team up?

What is the Tiger 2 rough max cfm without valve moved?

Everyone still agree cfm x2 is potential power for an engine on gas? That dyno chart looks higher than that if they're mid 450cfm heads.

Thanks

[Stan Weiss]

Originally Posted by GOAT8U2

For a Ponti head newb like me that reads a thread like this...

What's the most a High Port cfm has shown without moving the valve?

Is the Tiger 2 the newest version or is there something coming out after the new foundry team up?

What is the Tiger 2 rough max cfm without valve moved?

Everyone still agree cfm x2 is potential power for an engine on gas? That dyno chart looks higher than that if they're mid 450cfm heads.

Thanks

I like to use 2.2 but any number is just a very rough guess.

John's head were 466 so ► 1134 / 466 = 2.43348 I have seen dyno sheets for other engines around 2.5.

Calvin Hill got 420 cfm from KRE HP with a 2.20" intake valve.

Stan

[Dragncar]

Originally Posted by slowbird

You can believe what you want but I will still bet money he didn't get that cfm. Not without moving valves which he never did. I am very familiar with HP heads and what they are capable of. Find that post where he says that. Also I talked to Mike and Giro quite a bit back then and seen the heads.

Took me a bit. If he says it, I believe it.


https://forums.maxperformanceinc.com...54#post5689654

I also found one of my old posts where I mention he has a CNC program that went 459cfm. So he had to have told me that.

[slowbird]

Originally Posted by Dragncar

Took me a bit. If he says it, I believe it.


https://forums.maxperformanceinc.com...54#post5689654

I also found one of my old posts where I mention he has a CNC program that went 459cfm. So he had to have told me that.

They don't flow that without moving things, none of it matters because there is only 1 set of Marcella HP heads out there and they won't make the power a 460cfm head should.

[steve25]

It took 486 cfm@28” to make that 1132 hp from the dyno sheet in post 46.

[slowbird]

Originally Posted by steve25

It took 486 cfm@28” to make that 1132 hp from the dyno sheet in post 46.

Those heads flowed 20cfm less than that. Those cfm to hp equations aren't very good at all imo.

[Stan Weiss]

Originally Posted by slowbird

Those heads flowed 20cfm less than that. Those cfm to hp equations aren't very good at all imo.

Brian,
Remember that the head flow cfm numbers are @ 28" of water.A running engine sees much different and varying depression through the RPM range. The easiest way to see this is looking at a dyno sheet for an engine that has a 750 cfm carb rated v@ 1.5" hg (which is smaller than needed) and the dyno sheets shows measured SCFM at a value greater than that.

Stan

PS Let me add that while people look at dyno sheets for fuel lb/hr and BSFC what most dyno sheets don't show is BSAC.

[Dragncar]

Originally Posted by steve25

It took 486 cfm@28” to make that 1132 hp from the dyno sheet in post 46.

The same guys E heads beat that @ 414cfm.

[Dragncar]

Originally Posted by slowbird

They don't flow that without moving things, none of it matters because there is only 1 set of Marcella HP heads out there and they won't make the power a 460cfm head should.

Why in the world would you doubt that guy ? Because your guy could not beat it ?
How do you know there is only one set of Marcellas High Ports out there. I mean, I do not know for a fact that there is, but I believe Scott Brown owns the CNC programs.
If the man says he did not move the valve why would you doubt him ?
Not sure why its so hard to believe.
Mikes E heads went 414cfm.
Thats 134cfm over as cast (280cfm)
High Ports as cast 330cfm.
Johns HPs 459cfm.
A difference of 129 cfm.
Thats a little less that his difference with E heads.
Seems reasonable to me.
Looking at some of those old ,great threads maybe you have a old ax to grind ?

[Stan Weiss]

Originally Posted by Dragncar

The same guys E heads beat that @ 414cfm.

This also is a case of don't always just look at the cfm. That set of heads was tailored for Mikes engine. That I can remember as John kept working on the heads he was adjusting the CSA for Mike's ci and RPM.

Stan

[slowbird]

Originally Posted by Dragncar

Why in the world would you doubt that guy ? Because your guy could not beat it ?
How do you know there is only one set of Marcellas High Ports out there. I mean, I do not know for a fact that there is, but I believe Scott Brown owns the CNC programs.
If the man says he did not move the valve why would you doubt him ?
Not sure why its so hard to believe.
Mikes E heads went 414cfm.
Thats 134cfm over as cast (280cfm)
High Ports as cast 330cfm.
Johns HPs 459cfm.
A difference of 129 cfm.
Thats a little less that his difference with E heads.
Seems reasonable to me.
Looking at some of those old ,great threads maybe you have a old ax to grind ?

Because I don't believe everything I read. I know someone that deals with Scott Brown alot. I know Dan got about same cfm from wide port eheads, I know Dan's pp head flowed more than Marcella pp head, I know that Dan spent a LOT of time over 8yrs with my HP heads.
No matter what you want to believe Marcella HP heads haven't out ran a single head yet unless you race flow benches, which I don't.