[mysticmissle]

so i am collecting parts to make my 64 more streetable in a future rendition, but with more horsepower.
it is going to be 505 with less than 10:1 and a turbo. also EFI with ability to run e85 and other fuels when in ''track mode" i do not plan on daily driving this thing but i would like to use it more than at norwalk and maybe 5-6 times a year at the strip.

i have a general idea what hard parts i am going to use but, I will be ordering pistons and wondered if i need to consider gas ported pistons. They do not seem like must haves for this application, in fact research says new rings and maybe cleaning of gas ports may be required before 5000 miles.
as an internet search quickly showed. i do not plan on daily driving this thing but i would like to use it more than at norwalk and maybe 5-6 times a year at the strip,
BUT my question is, who or is anyone, running gas ported pistons or ported rings in any type of street application with no regrets? always prefer first hand pontiac based info vs internet search. thanks

[mgarblik]

I am not personally a fan of gas ported pistons, especially the vertical gas ports. However, I have several engines out in street use with the fairly new idea of gas ported piston rings by Total seal and others. The idea of having horizontal gas grooves in the hard piston ring rather than the soft aluminum material. I like the idea of that vs holes drilled in a soft part. Not sure if there is a real advantage vs a torsional twist ring that has been used for decades. But another route to consider.

[Gach]

Total over kill for what your intentions are. Unless your looking for every once of hp, and even then may be worth 15-20 hp personally I wouldn’t waste the money.

[NeighborsComplaint]

The prior owner of my '71 ran and set of gas-ported Venolia 400B pistons with pop-up domes came with it. He ran them in the 455 with RAIV heads on race gas. I reused them after milling the domes down, glass beading the piston tops and topping them off with 6x-8 heads for street use on pump gas.

I ran them for about 10 years and wound up breaking off ring lands on 4 of them from detonation due to running a too-lean emissions test tune-up back when that was a requirement. They would probably still be in the car and running if I hadn't been so lazy about recalibrating the carb and timing.

[Dragncar]

I used some Total Seal ported 1/16" rings recently. Retrofit kind of deal on pistons that were not designed for it.
The gas port slots have much more surface area than gas port holes in a race piston so they should be far less prone to clogging.
So far, so good, the engine does not give a hint of smoke and pulls plenty of vacuum.
I think they are the way to go as long as you run a V pump.
It would have been a lot easier with pistons designed for them. The spacers were a pain, time consuming.

[Gach]

Hey you can be our Guinea pig, ( Quote from Total Seal ) The Total Seal gas ported rings are a bit more than twice the cost of an otherwise conventional. From testing we’ve seen, there can be a double-digit (meaning in the teens) horsepower improvement.. At this point it then becomes a question of power return versus the investment. Overall there does not appear to be a durability tradeoff. Also I’d like to point out this is a whole new concept. Nothing really to back it up, just gotta ask yourself is 12-15 hp worth it. Paying double the cost for rings. The thing I’d worry about, is the groves in 1/16 ring eventually break in the ring, I don’t know just a visual thing for me.

[steve25]

I think you need to consider the trade off if your going to be running very thin rings along with gas porting.

Running thin rings and the reason for such.
1) reduction in friction .

2) less high rpm ring flutter and the reduction in sealing that such a condition brings with it.

3) lighter recipe’s

Running very thin rings to deal with these first two conditions will benefit from gas porting .

That’s one side of the coin, now in your future build you can make greater power at lower rpm since your pumping up the motor with boost.

Less rpm means less piston speed and in turn less friction, that can negate reason #1.

Along these same lines less rpm lessens the chance of ring flutter, so this can kill off #2 in many situations.

Now comes the down side, more power means more heat gets absorbed into the pistons and excess heat not used in producing power needs to be conducted by the rings out of the pistons.

So here , yes you can get the hot exh gasses needed to load the rings harder to the cylinder walls by the gas ported piston method, or by the rings themselves that are made to due that, but either way your feeding more heat into the rings.

But there must be a tipping point for a boosted non NA motor where pressurizing the ring groove cuts into the rings longevity, not to mention the groove itself.

I don’t know where the heck that tipping point is, but folks who build high level boosted motors, or even NOS motors sure as heck must know as the piston ring manufacturers them selves must know.

These are the folks I would track down for answers .

[Dragncar]

Its 150$ vs 300$, big deal.
If you can get one horsepower for one lousy dollar that will be there every time you mash the pedal most would take that every single time.
150$ for 15 horsepower, sounds reasonable to me.
There is not guinea pig about it. Its a proven thing and a reliable thing.
Engines cost 8-15 thousand dollars, 150$ is a inexpensive improvement IMO.
They do make the slotted-ported rings in .032.
Not sure I would do it with a turbo but I bet the techs at Total Seal know all about it.
Ask them.

[Half-Inch Stud]

I never figured a downside to gas-porting the slug for the thin ring stack. waaay better than gapless.

[Dragncar]

Combine the gas ported piston or rings and lower tension rings with a V pump is a good thing, right ?
Its the street section and there are some members successfully doing it.
The IA2 block is known for having hard cylinder walls.
I say do it, I bet the OPs 64 turns out sweet.
A 9.5-1 IA2 505 with a single hair dryer would be a way cool street car, and very fast.

[Gach]

Other thing to consider ( if it’s true) you’ll have to spring for a Vacuum pump plus all the accessories to hook up Vacuum pump. Not cheap deal..And what ever you do when installing them ( rings ) don’t mess up. Because you’ll have to buy another set…happen to someone I know. LOL don’t think I’d be taking advice from him..LOL so vacuum pump set up, then hours on the phone. Trying to learn how to do it properly. All for maybe 12 hp..LOL I have no idea what a vacuum pump set up cost just guessing $400-500.00 by time your done. For what bracket racing. The thing that gets me is, if there was back to back test that actually proves they’ll actually make another 15 hp or so, then I might consider it.

[Gach]

BUT my question is, who or is anyone, running gas ported pistons or ported rings in any type of street application with no regrets? always prefer first hand pontiac based info vs internet search. thanks

So far haven’t seen anyone fitting that description, in any of the contributors here to your question.

[Jay S]

I have JE pistons with vertical gas ports on .043” medium tension rings in a street NA 461 Pontiac. Carbon may not be much of a issue with ethanol fuels, I did an inspection at about 500 miles, running 91 octane and 15% ethanol, it looked fine so I put it back together.

[Gach]

Originally Posted by Jay S

I have JE pistons with vertical gas ports on .043” medium tension rings in a street NA 461 Pontiac. Carbon may not be much of a issue with ethanol fuels, I did an inspection at about 500 miles, running 91 octane and 15% ethanol, it looked fine so I put it back together.

Question do you run vacuum pump ?

[slowbird]

Why would you need to run a vacuum pump with gas porting? Whoever says that doesn't understand what gas porting does.

I have ran gas ported pistons on the street without issues. I am currently running gas ported rings on the street without issues.

I would 100% run gas ported rings in this build.

[Gach]

Yeah, that was my question ( if its true ) is vacuum pump needed.

[Gach]

Just curious what’s the cost of gas ported pistons vs none gas ported pistons. Is there a big difference in price.

[242177P]

Originally Posted by Gach

Just curious what’s the cost of gas ported pistons vs none gas ported pistons. Is there a big difference in price.

Just stop already. OP never mentioned a tight budget.

[Gach]

Originally Posted by 242177P

Just stop already. OP never mentioned a tight budget.

I like how you just pop in and throw your little zingers at me.. Its only like your third time you’ve done it..just pop in out of nowhere. with nothing to contribute. You know you can block me so you don’t have to read my post… if it up sets you that much. I mean just out of common courtesy to the rest of the members.

[Dragncar]

You can watch plenty of dyno tests on U Tube about this stuff. On a 450ish sbc going from 1/16" file fits to 1 mm (.039) ported rings was worth 7 HP.
1/16 classic to 1/16 ported rings got 5 HP
The thinner the rings go the more power they make, lowers oil and water temps measurably.
Sprint engines are ,7 mm which is .027 in thousandths.
Then you have low tension rings combining that with gas porting and a V pump.
It all adds up so its about a grand or so if you do not have a V pump setup, they are not cheap.

The added power in gas porting comes from the top ring being more stable at high RPM. When rings flutter its all bad. Less power, more blow by.
But this hobby is not cheap either.
I did the 1/16" gas ported rings but had them back cut reducing tension and now am a V pump guy.
I like it, rear main is dry, no smoke ever in this engine. Not even on first fire up.
The next engine that I already have the parts for will have gas ported pistons and Total Seal CS 08 steel rings
Scott B said they were the best one for the money. I paid 400$ for them and they are now 528 $