[b777d]

Originally Posted by Formulabruce

Its just plain hard FACT that Trannys start to get destroyed over 200 degrees.
ANY method to keep your automatic transmission under 200 degrees will help its life expectancy.

I noticed when I drive my car and it runs at about 210, after I shut It down it will leave a little puddle of tranny fluid on the ground..

If it runs at 180-190 I never lose a drop..

And I cant find the leak for the life of me..

[Formulabruce]

Originally Posted by b777d

I noticed when I drive my car and it runs at about 210, after I shut It down it will leave a little puddle of tranny fluid on the ground..

If it runs at 180-190 I never lose a drop..

And I cant find the leak for the life of me..

bubbles out the tube, or around the tube entry hole seal in the tranny probably, have seen that, also a car running that hot will go into whats called "heat soak" after its shut off, making things even hotter, and no transmission cooling is going on .

[Region Warrior]

Originally Posted by b777d

I noticed when I drive my car and it runs at about 210, after I shut It down it will leave a little puddle of tranny fluid on the ground..

If it runs at 180-190 I never lose a drop..

And I cant find the leak for the life of me..

To much ATF.

Like to keep ATF round 160-170. Havent used radiator cooler since 70's.

[FrankieT/A]

Originally Posted by Formulabruce

bubbles out the tube, or around the tube entry hole seal in the tranny probably, have seen that, also a car running that hot will go into whats called "heat soak" after its shut off, making things even hotter, and no transmission cooling is going on .

Don't forget about the vent.

[Region Warrior]

Just talk'n Pontiac's here.

If your using a factory stat(192*), or a replacement factory stat(195*), and your gauge reads 180, its way off.
Reason the post on Rocky's response.
You better notify HPP and tell'm he's wrong.

If you want to run cooler, use a 170 or 180(what i use) stat.
210 will not hurt an engine if its tuned and use good fuel. That's what they where designed to run at.

[Region Warrior]

Only have a large auxiliary in front of radiator since the 70's.
No idea what temp it runs.

[geeteeohguy]

I have to agree with Region Warrior. I've run several Pontiacs for decades and 100's of thousands of miles at temps ranging from 195-225 degrees, with zero heat induced problems. 210 degrees won't hurt a thing. As stated, it is thermally more efficient than a 160 degree engine and will make more power more economically. My '67 GTO ragtop has over 245,000 miles on the original engine block, and it's been running around 210 for over 40 years. And still is running, just fine. No cracks, no blown gaskets.

[Mister Pontiac]

He he...

Yes, it IS interesting what alleged authorities claim to be fact. Like the "fact" that a Pontiac engine running @ 210 degrees is obviously a problem. Uh huh...

Most of us know all the "tricks" (clearanced divider plate, correct vacuum advance curve, aluminum or 4 core radiator, baffle seals and shrouds, operating fan clutch, etc...), and the temp needle STILL hovers above the thermostat on hot ambient temp days (100+ degrees, especially in traffic) with our beloved iron head Poncho's?

Well then ya' gotta ask yourself... "Hmmm... I wonder why the factory made the overheat light come on @ 240 degrees, while I'm scared to death of 210 degrees on my gauge and afraid to drive my car!?" Geez! Just drive the silly thing...

There are so many different operating conditions we run our engines in, extremes in both hot and cold ambient temperatures, yet they still just keep on Pontiacing along, 160 to 220 degrees they go. Whatever.

Thank goodness the factory put idiot lights in most of our cars. What we didn't know, didn't hurt us, nor our engines. And it still doesn't.

Fortunately the factory also understood this "analysis paralysis" very well, hence the ubiquitous idiot lights in our cars...

[Region Warrior]

Anyone concerned, rec you buy a temp gun. Interesting check'n different temps on engine components.

From my experience can say 210 wont hurt "unless" the Stewart Warner gauges used in Pontiacs from 75 was off. Not likely since oil and volt where/are spot on.
Bought 1st one(68FB) with 80k miles. Ran great, didn't use oil.
Since car had no factory gauges, installed the SW's.
Didnt like 210, so replaced the 195 stat with same think'n it would come down. Made no change.
Older guys told me don't worry bout it, all factory cars run over 200*.
Next year built a HP400 and sold the original to a guy that put another 10k on it before sell'n car. Never heard how many more miles where put on after that.
The HP400 was run real hard(shifted at 6500K) for 2 seasons at track and street and ran 195* w/a 180 stat.
Same time in 77, found an original drive train 67FB 400(never out of car) 4spd with 42K miles that been sit'n since 71-72. It ran 205*/210* w/a different gauge. Had all the original baffles, upper covers, clutch fan and shroud, etc.
Drove it on special occasions till parked in 92-93 for a restoration...some day soon...
Built and swap'd a higher HP455 engine for the 68 in 79/80(?), sold HP400 that ran several more years in a street car w/o a prob.
The 455 was shifted at 6800K for 2 seasons and ran 180-185 w/a 170 stat.
Bought another 68FB 7 yrs ago. 455(bout 370HP), with the best gauges out there, all the factory baffles, covers, clutch fan, shroud, it runs 180-185 w/a 170 stat.

Correction.
6500 and 6800 was power level.
Both where shifted at a lower rpm.

[gto406]

Good article by Marlan Davis (HRM Tech Editor) on engine oil temps:

http://www.hotrod.com/feature_storie...l_temperature/

HTH,
Brian.

[carcrazy]

I've never worried much about 200 degrees or so. Never had it cause a problem (that I know of) in any of my engines (and I've had a lot). I've always been more concerned when my reference point, where temps normally were during operation, changed to any great degree! If my motor was consistently 190 and then it's 210-why??? As there are a lot of different opinions here, I'd be curious to see if anyone had specific information/studies on our Pontiac engines in terms of wear or damage at different temperatures.

[Formulabruce]

Originally Posted by gto406

Good article by Marlan Davis (HRM Tech Editor) on engine oil temps:

http://www.hotrod.com/feature_storie...l_temperature/

HTH,
Brian.

A little info on this..., heres a Quote from Mr Marlan>>"For a dual-purpose car, engine oil needs to be at least 220 degrees F to burn off all the deposits and accumulated water vapor. For every pound of fuel burned in an engine, the combustion process also generates a pound of water! If engine sump temperatures rarely exceed 212 degrees (water’s boiling point), the water will mix with sulfur (another combustion by-product) and create acids that can eventually damage bearings. " END QUOTE
This is so old school it isnt even funny. The accumulated water "vapor" Produced in the combustion process, goes out the exhaust, what little there is as the alcohol we have helps burn it up, or make it into a Vapor, , a GAS, not a liquid. Sulfer , there is so little now, thats not even worth mentioning.. Todays gas, and todays tolerances in engines, even rebuilds, with oil that doesnt break down, do not get acid and build up in the crankcase. We dont run old 8-9:1 engines with worn rings with an EGR valve anymore.
He backs off ANY liability for his statemenst by saying this>> Quote>"Also remember that a high-end engine is built as a total combination. Piston-to-wall clearances, piston ring end-gaps, and bearing clearances are specifically tailored to match the engine oil’s characteristics and intended operating temperature. <END Quote.
Conclusion. The current oil, and fuel, and tolerances, AND design dont need oil to "burn things up in the crankcase", unless, of course your running an old original engine, and want to burn up whats sliding by your rings.
This article may be geared toward racing, or "dual purpose" engines, but its very outdated Info, and people believe it still applies to all engines. Although engine oil breakdown occurs much higher, the temps for oil are figured at 0 degrees f, and 200 f.
so Mr MARLAN, Wheres YOUR water comming from???

[72LuxuryLeMansLa.]

Originally Posted by Formulabruce

Todays gas, and todays tolerances in engines, even rebuilds, with oil that doesnt break down, do not get acid and build up in the crankcase. We dont run old 8-9:1 engines with worn rings with an EGR valve anymore.
He backs off ANY liability for his statemenst by saying this>> Quote>"Also remember that a high-end engine is built as a total combination. Piston-to-wall clearances, piston ring end-gaps, and bearing clearances are specifically tailored to match the engine oil’s characteristics and intended operating temperature. <END Quote.
Conclusion. The current oil, and fuel, and tolerances, AND design dont need oil to "burn things up in the crankcase", unless, of course your running an old original engine, and want to burn up whats sliding by your rings.
This article may be geared toward racing, or "dual purpose" engines, but its very outdated Info, and people believe it still applies to all engines. Although engine oil breakdown occurs much higher, the temps for oil are figured at 0 degrees f, and 200 f.
so Mr MARLAN, Wheres YOUR water comming from???

There are a bunch of us still running old engines! That's what we are here far, to discuss our old cars not our new Tahoe or whatever so for me and I'm sure others this is very relevant information. More detailed information on oil here: http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/motor-oil-101/

Karl

[Formulabruce]

Originally Posted by 72LuxuryLeMansLa.

There are a bunch of us still running old engines! That's what we are here far, to discuss our old cars not our new Tahoe or whatever so for me and I'm sure others this is very relevant information. More detailed information on oil here: http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/motor-oil-101/

Karl

Even ol "Bob' in your link doesn't discuss "boiling out water"
Good article from Bob.. thanks for the link !

[Mister Pontiac]

Originally Posted by carcrazy

I've never worried much about 200 degrees or so. Never had it cause a problem (that I know of) in any of my engines (and I've had a lot). I've always been more concerned when my reference point, where temps normally were during operation, changed to any great degree! If my motor was consistently 190 and then it's 210-why???

Exactly.

And this is the whole of the discussion, which brings us back to the OP's original question... "How hot is too hot?"

Hmmm... well if it's simply running warmer than it normally does, but you're also driving it differently than you normally do (hotter ambient temps, or stuck in traffic, or a 100 mile drive when you normally don't see but 20 miles, or it suddenly went to 240 degrees and illuminated the temp light, or it's boiling over and spewing coolant, or?)

Or...

Is it really that the temp needle is a few degrees higher than you're used to seeing, making you nervous? If so, I believe you're just fine. An engine will let you know when it is truly overheating, and the more you drive it in varying conditions, the better feel you'll have for what it actually runs at.

Simply put, if it ain't broke, don't fix it.

Good luck, OP!

[george kujanski]

My feeling is I want my engine temp to be near the thermostat rating under all driving conditions, otherwise there is a marginality in the system. The system should be designed to do exactly that.

Once I have confirmed that everything is as it should be, I try to determine what the maximums are and under what conditions. If I'm not comfy with what I see, I look for areas of improvement. It's a piece-of-mind thing, perhaps i overlooked something..that's just me.

George

[pont3]

I own three vintage Pontiacs, two that have rebuilt/modified engines, and one that the engine has never been taken apart. They ALL run anywhere from 200 to 210 degrees consistently, and I drive one of them EVERY day back and forth to work. I have well over 50k on my most recent rebuild, and over 100k on the other.

I also noticed, (while I was experimenting with my infared temp gun, that even my newer vehicles run close to the same or higher temps.

Many factors contribute to (supposedly) higher operating temps now than back in the day. Available fuel is the major contributor. As long as my engine temp doesn't reach the red zone of the gage, I don't worry. And my daily driver contains an engine that was rebuilt back in 1999.