[grandville455]

Originally Posted by Region Warrior

Considering Pontiac used 195* stats since 66, 210*-220* should be normal.

I would agree with that for the most part except now we have crap gas that makes them run leaner and hotter than back then?

[GT182]

Originally Posted by Region Warrior

Considering Pontiac used 195* stats since 66, 210*-220* should be normal.

How do you figure that nonsense? 210-220 is not 195. If everything is working as it should... not counting the crap gas we have these days... the cooling system should be at the temp of the thermostat installed. No more no less. If you want 210-220 temps then put in a 210 or 220 thermostat.

Never ever did any of the 4 Pontiacs I owned back in the 70s run over 180 with a 180 thermostat installed. For that matter, never have any of the Fords I've owned.

[Region Warrior]

Cause the temp sensor is on the hot side of the stat.
How hot do you think the coolant is coming out of the heads?
Ever check with a temp gun?

[grandville455]

Originally Posted by Region Warrior

Cause the temp sensor is on the hot side of the stat.
How hot do you think the coolant is coming out of the heads?
Ever check with a temp gun?

What side is that? the pass side? I have two sensors in my crossover one on the drivers side which is the factory gauge one , and then one closer to the pass side edge for my auto meter gauge and that one always show's hotter than the other is that why? I think why the older motors ran at 210 is cause almost all of them i think had the sensor in the head which showed the head temp and not the crossover temps.

[DanC]

Originally Posted by Region Warrior

Considering Pontiac used 195* stats since 66, 210*-220* should be normal.

As I said before, my 33 years of driving Pontiacs leads me to be believe this to be proof positive by experiance!


Also as stated earlier, the Pontiac cooling spec I quoted states the stat begins to open at 190'. Now maybe the stat manufacture's build them to open at the stated value. But with a complete original style setup the engine is gonna run ~210 period! This would be "Normal"

As a note on sensor location, all my sensors have been on the crossover with the exception of the '73 GP which is on the RH head. And this one, with the factory gauge, indicates the same temp results I've experianced with all the others.

I am really glad I started this thread, since I am getting some really good info and thoughts from this.

I just wish you or I could find a writtten factory referance to what is "normal". Or if we knew what temp the "idiot light" came on at least we'd know what was too hot!!!!

DanC

[grandville455]

A guy I know who used to race stock cars said they made the most torque at 212 in his dirt car with a 400.

[Old Goat 67]

Originally Posted by DanC

As I said before, my 33 years of driving Pontiacs leads me to be believe this to be proof positive by experiance!


Also as stated earlier, the Pontiac cooling spec I quoted states the stat begins to open at 190'. Now maybe the stat manufacture's build them to open at the stated value. But with a complete original style setup the engine is gonna run ~210 period! This would be "Normal"

As a note on sensor location, all my sensors have been on the crossover with the exception of the '73 GP which is on the RH head. And this one, with the factory gauge, indicates the same temp results I've experianced with all the others.

I am really glad I started this thread, since I am getting some really good info and thoughts from this.

I just wish you or I could find a writtten factory referance to what is "normal". Or if we knew what temp the "idiot light" came on at least we'd know what was too hot!!!!

DanC

Sorry to have to bust your bubble Dan, but in my 44 years of driving my GTO, when it had the 195 thermostat in it never ran hotter than about 200 with AC on and in the heat of summer in La. Even at sustained speeds of 80 MPH through New Mexico in the heat of summer. This was with a Stewart Warner guage under the dash.

Not until the pump was replaced with an inferior one did it start giving me problems. Finding that screw up and fixing it (after MANY wild goose chases), cleared that problem and it does not get hotter than 185 with a 180 thermostat in it. This with a CALIBRATED Rally setup now.

Charles

[grandville455]

We need that Pump Charles

[Old Goat 67]

We are WORKING on it as HARD as we can, Dude.

Something is in the works, we'll let you guys know ASAP.

Charles

[72LuxuryLeMansLa.]

Originally Posted by DanC

I just wish you or I could find a writtten factory referance to what is "normal". Or if we knew what temp the "idiot light" came on at least we'd know what was too hot!!!!

DanC

Dan,

The 1972 Pontiac Service Manual states that the Indicator light will come on at 248*F +/- 20*F. So it will light up anywhere between 228*F and 268*F......

These operate off of a thermal switch located in the passenger side head on the '72 350.

Karl

[Old Goat 67]

Same for 67 Karl.
Except it's on the intake.

Any where close to that and the performance of the engine tells you WAY before the light comes on! When the light comes on, it's already too late, unnecessary damage has already been happening!

That is exactly why the thermostat in mine is a 180°. I want the "cushion". As the "calibrated" gauge shows, the system IS performing as required.

Charles

[grandville455]

You guys running 3 or 4 core radiators? also how much power u making? I am running a 3 core, and would like to find a 4 core for my 560 hp monster. I see oreily's has a new murray 4 core for 189

[Tripower455]

Originally Posted by Old Goat 67

Sorry to have to bust your bubble Dan, but in my 44 years of driving my GTO, when it had the 195 thermostat in it never ran hotter than about 200 with AC on and in the heat of summer in La. Even at sustained speeds of 80 MPH through New Mexico in the heat of summer. This was with a Stewart Warner guage under the dash.

Not until the pump was replaced with an inferior one did it start giving me problems. Finding that screw up and fixing it (after MANY wild goose chases), cleared that problem and it does not get hotter than 185 with a 180 thermostat in it. This with a CALIBRATED Rally setup now.

Charles

Not to nitpick, but many of us having issues have power levels and displacement that far exceed the original spec engines in these cars, which, IMHO, contributes to warmer than comfortable running (even with vac advance connected GT182 ). My old '66 with the stock 389 never had any heat issues, neither did my stock '69 or '77 GPs.

I will definitely get one of the blueprinted water pumps/plates for my beast, but I'll eat my Evans pump if it makes one degree of difference in running temps.

[grandville455]

Originally Posted by Tripower455

Not to nitpick, but many of us having issues have power levels and displacement that far exceed the original spec engines in these cars, which, IMHO, contributes to warmer than comfortable running (even with vac advance connected GT182 ). My old '66 with the stock 389 never had any heat issues, neither did my stock '69 or '77 GPs.

I will definitely get one of the blueprinted water pumps/plates for my beast, but I'll eat my Evans pump if it makes one degree of difference in running temps.

I agree! Did u get your stock fan back on yet?

[Region Warrior]

Originally Posted by Old Goat 67

Sorry to have to bust your bubble Dan, but in my 44 years of driving my GTO, when it had the 195 thermostat in it never ran hotter than about 200 with AC on and in the heat of summer in La. Even at sustained speeds of 80 MPH through New Mexico in the heat of summer. This was with a Stewart Warner guage under the dash.

Not until the pump was replaced with an inferior one did it start giving me problems. Finding that screw up and fixing it (after MANY wild goose chases), cleared that problem and it does not get hotter than 185 with a 180 thermostat in it. This with a CALIBRATED Rally setup now.

Charles

I'd check it with a temp gun or another gauge.
There's ok, good, and better SW gauges.
Had a set of "ok" years ago.
O/pressure was off by 10 lbs.
Wtr temp by 15.

Check out Formulabruce's post #32 on "Engine Temperature" thread.

[Old Goat 67]

Originally Posted by Tripower455

Not to nitpick, but many of us having issues have power levels and displacement that far exceed the original spec engines in these cars, which, IMHO, contributes to warmer than comfortable running (even with vac advance connected GT182 ). My old '66 with the stock 389 never had any heat issues, neither did my stock '69 or '77 GPs.

Tripower,
Have you conferred with the engine builder as to what he would recommend? Or did you do it yourself?

Originally Posted by Tripower455

I will definitely get one of the blueprinted water pumps/plates for my beast, but I'll eat my Evans pump if it makes one degree of difference in running temps.

Ohh, I hope it doesn't come to that!

Originally Posted by grandville455

You guys running 3 or 4 core radiators? also how much power u making? I am running a 3 core, and would like to find a 4 core for my 560 hp monster. I see oreily's has a new murray 4 core for 189

Stock 67 335 HP. My 4 core was re-cored to a 5 core Sterling unit when I was trying to find the elusive bullet.

Originally Posted by Region Warrior

I'd check it with a temp gun or another gauge.
There's ok, good, and better SW gauges.
Had a set of "ok" years ago.
O/pressure was off by 10 lbs.
Wtr temp by 15.

I had proved my SW gauges to be reading 10° hot before I converted to Rally's and "calibrated" it with Serio's info and a Lectric Limited sender.


Charles

[grandville455]

Originally Posted by Old Goat 67

Stock 67 335 HP. My 4 core was re-cored to a 5 core Sterling unit when I was trying to find the elusive bullet.


Charles

Yea that's a little different then my 560 hp trying to be cooled by a 3 core, actually my 195-200 running temps down the highway at 3100 rpm's doesn't seem to bad then for what i got! If I get a 4 core it will be that much better

[Old Goat 67]

Originally Posted by grandville455

You guys running 3 or 4 core radiators? also how much power u making? I am running a 3 core, and would like to find a 4 core for my 560 hp monster. I see oreily's has a new murray 4 core for 189

Originally Posted by grandville455

Yea that's a little different then my 560 hp trying to be cooled by a 3 core, actually my 195-200 running temps down the highway at 3100 rpm's doesn't seem to bad then for what i got! If I get a 4 core it will be that much better

No **** Sherlock.

You do good boy!

[Tripower455]

Originally Posted by Old Goat 67

Tripower,
Have you conferred with the engine builder as to what he would recommend? Or did you do it yourself?

Yeah, and I have no idea why it's running hotter than I'd like!

Ohh, I hope it doesn't come to that!

LOL... Me too! I think I have enough iron in my diet!

[DanC]

Originally Posted by Old Goat 67

Sorry to have to bust your bubble Dan, but in my 44 years of driving my GTO, when it had the 195 thermostat in it never ran hotter than about 200 with AC on and in the heat of summer in La. Even at sustained speeds of 80 MPH through New Mexico in the heat of summer.

Charles

No bubble to burst Charles! I am just stating my experiance with temps and no problems and you are stating yours

After reading all these really interesting posts, I still feel that 210/220 "running hot" is overrated. I base this on my experiance as well as Pontiac printing that the system is designed to run in excess of 200', designing a "Hot" light that illuminates at ~248 ( thanks Karl ), and a couple folks stating that their et's are best at 210'.

So with that said I feel fine about running 210. If others are/were worried about running about the same, I hope this thread eases their mind and saves them a buncha money trying to get down to 190 cause they think they have to. Now if one wants to that's their prerogative!

DanC