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Old 03-12-2010, 12:16 PM
mike nixon mike nixon is offline
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When you get a few heat and cool cycles on the headers retighten them. DO this a couple times to avoid leakage.

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  #62  
Old 05-25-2010, 09:07 AM
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I noticed there were no issues with starter clearance, but a miini starter was used. Does anyone know if there is any issues with the standard GM starter?

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  #63  
Old 05-25-2010, 04:05 PM
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An OEM starter will fit but there are those that say it won't last because of the heat. My solenoid was already melting so I had already gotten a RobbMc.

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1969 GTO, 455ci, 230/236 Pontiac Dude's "Butcher Special" Comp hyd roller cam with Crower HIPPO solid roller lifters, Q-jet, Edelbrock P4B-QJ, Doug's headers, ported 6X-8 (97cc) heads, TKO600, 3.73 geared Eaton Tru-Trac 8.5", hydroboost, rear disc brakes......and my greatest mechanical feat....a new heater core.
  #64  
Old 05-25-2010, 06:28 PM
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Was your selonoid melting because of the headers?
Or before and you changed it prior?
I just got a new OEM from PY and I am really happy with it, I hate to discard it for no reason.
Thanks
Mike

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  #65  
Old 05-26-2010, 08:09 AM
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My RA III manifolds killed it, I believe. I got to where the starter wouldn't turn the engine over when it was hot and when I took it off the solenoid looked pretty sad. So I bought a RobbMc. I gotta admit that when I lifted the mini starter into place the first time I knew I'd made the right decision.
There are those that run OEM starters with headers or RA manifolds and have no issues. Go to the search (if you haven't) and type in the words headers and starter and with a little sifting I believe you'll find plenty of reading on the subject.

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1969 GTO, 455ci, 230/236 Pontiac Dude's "Butcher Special" Comp hyd roller cam with Crower HIPPO solid roller lifters, Q-jet, Edelbrock P4B-QJ, Doug's headers, ported 6X-8 (97cc) heads, TKO600, 3.73 geared Eaton Tru-Trac 8.5", hydroboost, rear disc brakes......and my greatest mechanical feat....a new heater core.
  #66  
Old 05-26-2010, 09:13 PM
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Default should be ok- ?

Mike, I've a 68 lemans Vert and the gm starter fit fine, no hot start issue after I up graded the battery and put a heavier gauge wire going to it. Both the original wire and battery were "whimpy", causing hot start issues.

Also please check my new "Doug's header's info needed" thread

Howard

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  #67  
Old 06-19-2010, 02:05 AM
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David, You said that basic craftsman wrenches were used to tighten all the bolts on the Doug's headers, correct? No special wrenches or modifications were needed on the wrenches? What about the hard to get to bolt on each side (next to 5 and 6 exhaust ports)?

I just spent 4+ hours tonight trying to get all 6 bolts tight on a cheap set of headers... don't know brand or anything. I got all but 2 bolts tight, and of course those 2 are the "back, middle" bolts. (next to 5 and 6 exhaust ports). It aint gonna get done without some special wrench, or a decent amount of modifying. The 5/6 exhaust pipe is routed right up again the head of the bolt, not leaving hardly any room to get a wrench in there, much less on the bolt.

From David's pictures, It looks like the Doug's headers leave alittle room to work with for ALL the bolts, including the hard-to-get-to ones.

I may be looking to drop good money on some GOOD headers in the near future...

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  #68  
Old 06-20-2010, 09:36 AM
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I use a Craftsman line wrench on most of them and a basic Craftsman open end on one other. If you turn the line wrench to take advantage of the angle of the handle it can be worked on all but one bolt. I haven't had to tighten mine lately but I think that is #6. I use a basic open end on it. Next time I have the hood up I'll see what fits where. You may not be able to see all the bolts but fingers can see the line wrench into place. And you don't have to worry about it slipping off and ruining a bolt head...or a knuckle.

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1969 GTO, 455ci, 230/236 Pontiac Dude's "Butcher Special" Comp hyd roller cam with Crower HIPPO solid roller lifters, Q-jet, Edelbrock P4B-QJ, Doug's headers, ported 6X-8 (97cc) heads, TKO600, 3.73 geared Eaton Tru-Trac 8.5", hydroboost, rear disc brakes......and my greatest mechanical feat....a new heater core.
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Old 06-22-2010, 05:38 PM
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I can get to and tighten all the header bolts (Doug's supplied, 3/8 headed) with a Craftsman #44174 line wrench, except the bolt by number six spark plug. For that I use Craftsman open end wrench #44572. My car has no A/C but has power brakes.

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frittering and wasting the hours in an off hand way....



1969 GTO, 455ci, 230/236 Pontiac Dude's "Butcher Special" Comp hyd roller cam with Crower HIPPO solid roller lifters, Q-jet, Edelbrock P4B-QJ, Doug's headers, ported 6X-8 (97cc) heads, TKO600, 3.73 geared Eaton Tru-Trac 8.5", hydroboost, rear disc brakes......and my greatest mechanical feat....a new heater core.
  #70  
Old 06-29-2010, 07:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PontiacMatt72 View Post
David, You said that basic craftsman wrenches were used to tighten all the bolts on the Doug's headers, correct? No special wrenches or modifications were needed on the wrenches? What about the hard to get to bolt on each side (next to 5 and 6 exhaust ports)?

I just spent 4+ hours tonight trying to get all 6 bolts tight on a cheap set of headers... don't know brand or anything. I got all but 2 bolts tight, and of course those 2 are the "back, middle" bolts. (next to 5 and 6 exhaust ports). It aint gonna get done without some special wrench, or a decent amount of modifying. The 5/6 exhaust pipe is routed right up again the head of the bolt, not leaving hardly any room to get a wrench in there, much less on the bolt.

From David's pictures, It looks like the Doug's headers leave alittle room to work with for ALL the bolts, including the hard-to-get-to ones.

I may be looking to drop good money on some GOOD headers in the near future...
Would those happen to be the Summit or Hedman headers?
I just put a set on two nights ago and there's NO WAY a regular or line wrench will get the 5 and 6 port bolts. You couldn't get a piece of dental floss between that bolt head and the runner. If you've got one that has a full 90 degree angle on it, it may fit but I don't have a conventional 7/16 combo wrench like that.
What I used was an ignition wrench. It has a right angle end on it and is very thin. The only drawback is that it's only about 4" long so you can't get a good amount of torque on it...but it's enough.
I've got a couple of coventional box end wrenches that I ground down thinner and a swivel socket for all the other bolts.

David, this was a good thread. I hadn't seen it before it got revived. I've got a new set of RA manifolds and just in the last couple of months decided to go back with headers just because my existing exhaust system is already set up for them and I had an unused set of cheap headers hanging in the garage. If I had it to do over again, I'd have spent the money on a set of Doug's. They look awesome.

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  #71  
Old 06-29-2010, 09:26 AM
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Greg, would a set of small headed header bolts work better? I think the recommended torque rating on the bolts is about 30/35lb-ft. A small standard wrench should be able to generate that. An ignition wrench? You might turn it inside out. Except for a few times when I needed to re-torque my bolts early on, I've had no issues with my Doug's. I personally don't think they are any louder than the RA III manifolds I took off. They have a different sound, but to my deaf ears they are no louder. My car is amazingly quiet inside.

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frittering and wasting the hours in an off hand way....



1969 GTO, 455ci, 230/236 Pontiac Dude's "Butcher Special" Comp hyd roller cam with Crower HIPPO solid roller lifters, Q-jet, Edelbrock P4B-QJ, Doug's headers, ported 6X-8 (97cc) heads, TKO600, 3.73 geared Eaton Tru-Trac 8.5", hydroboost, rear disc brakes......and my greatest mechanical feat....a new heater core.
  #72  
Old 06-29-2010, 10:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by David Jones View Post
Greg, would a set of small headed header bolts work better? I think the recommended torque rating on the bolts is about 30/35lb-ft. A small standard wrench should be able to generate that. An ignition wrench? You might turn it inside out. Except for a few times when I needed to re-torque my bolts early on, I've had no issues with my Doug's. I personally don't think they are any louder than the RA III manifolds I took off. They have a different sound, but to my deaf ears they are no louder. My car is amazingly quiet inside.
There might be a bolt designed that worked better. I'd have to see it. The problem is clearance below the bolthead and in front of the bolthead.
To clarify, the #5 runner comes straight down then straight back. Imagine an "L". The bolt is right in the corner of that right angle (threads up, head down) so that an open end wrench won't get between the verticle leg of the "L" and the bolt head...that's where a smaller head might help. A boxed end would be thin enough to fit there but you can't get over the head because of the horizontal 'foot' of the "L" being too close to the top (or in this case, bottom) of the bolt head.
The right angle on the wrench allows you to reach the bolt head from the open side of the "L".
I might take a regular length wrench and a torch and bend a right angle if I can't find one.. That'll give me some more torque although, I think I got it pretty tight. The little New Britain ignition wrenches have a real good bite on the bolt heads and I was able to give it a good push from the side.

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  #73  
Old 07-01-2010, 02:14 PM
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Greg, I am unsure of what brand headers I have... there's no marking to indicate it and I bought them used, for cheap... got what I paid for. but from your description, these were EXACTLY the same way. hardly any clearance, if any, between the head of the bolt and the header tube on 5 and 6 exhaust cylinders.

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  #74  
Old 07-02-2010, 06:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PontiacMatt72 View Post
Greg, I am unsure of what brand headers I have... there's no marking to indicate it and I bought them used, for cheap... got what I paid for. but from your description, these were EXACTLY the same way. hardly any clearance, if any, between the head of the bolt and the header tube on 5 and 6 exhaust cylinders.
Try the 7/16 ignition wrench with a right angle head. It's short but it will fit.

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Old 08-08-2010, 01:57 PM
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THANK YOU!

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  #76  
Old 01-12-2011, 08:06 AM
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Approaching 3 years now with my factory coated Doug's and they still look brand new.

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frittering and wasting the hours in an off hand way....



1969 GTO, 455ci, 230/236 Pontiac Dude's "Butcher Special" Comp hyd roller cam with Crower HIPPO solid roller lifters, Q-jet, Edelbrock P4B-QJ, Doug's headers, ported 6X-8 (97cc) heads, TKO600, 3.73 geared Eaton Tru-Trac 8.5", hydroboost, rear disc brakes......and my greatest mechanical feat....a new heater core.
  #77  
Old 03-10-2016, 10:04 AM
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8 years and 20-25,000 miles on 2 different engines. Still look brand new.

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frittering and wasting the hours in an off hand way....



1969 GTO, 455ci, 230/236 Pontiac Dude's "Butcher Special" Comp hyd roller cam with Crower HIPPO solid roller lifters, Q-jet, Edelbrock P4B-QJ, Doug's headers, ported 6X-8 (97cc) heads, TKO600, 3.73 geared Eaton Tru-Trac 8.5", hydroboost, rear disc brakes......and my greatest mechanical feat....a new heater core.
  #78  
Old 06-14-2016, 02:51 PM
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Quote:
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8 years and 20-25,000 miles on 2 different engines. Still look brand new.
Quality on this part must have really suffered because I'm installing Doug's D590 headers on my 69 GTO and they don't fit well. It seems like everything had to come out.

  #79  
Old 06-14-2016, 03:14 PM
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I have never in 39 years of messing around with Pontiacs and headers, had a set "go right in'! I had a set of Hooker Headers that I remember installing back in 1979...THEY almost went right in...almost! Nature of the beast I suppose....4 'soft' tubes being welded to a flange...while not on the motor....things can happen. Given the fact that I have 505 cu in, and a blower...I felt I had to run a set of headers. I would have loved to try a set of Ram Air manifold.

  #80  
Old 06-14-2016, 03:50 PM
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Quality on this part must have really suffered because I'm installing Doug's D590 headers on my 69 GTO and they don't fit well. It seems like everything had to come out.
Once you got everything out of the way, did they fit without denting etc?
Everything you had to remove went back in with no issue? (well, maybe tweaking a fluid line or two)
If the answer to both of those is yes, homerun. My thought is that if you don't have to ding them up or relocate some major component permanently to make them fit, they fit. Taking a few things off and then putting those things back on after the headers are bolted up is just part of the drill.

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frittering and wasting the hours in an off hand way....



1969 GTO, 455ci, 230/236 Pontiac Dude's "Butcher Special" Comp hyd roller cam with Crower HIPPO solid roller lifters, Q-jet, Edelbrock P4B-QJ, Doug's headers, ported 6X-8 (97cc) heads, TKO600, 3.73 geared Eaton Tru-Trac 8.5", hydroboost, rear disc brakes......and my greatest mechanical feat....a new heater core.
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