[unruhjonny]

/\ lol!!

Sorry Rocky - I blanked about the stuff in your book!

[steve25]

What’s wrong with some folks here?

All I asked was that Tom proved to me that there was a PRODUCTION , as in made by Pontiac forged crank for the so called RA4 SD motor that would have appeared in a parts book for 1970.

Just the fact that what was used in those few motors was made by Kellogg for Pontiac engineering means it was not a production line crank!

[steve25]

Here’s the rest of the info on the TRW forged standard 400 4bbl piston and the one for the ram air 4 only.

So To get good detail in my photos I took two photos to make up each line from the catalog.

This info clearly shows that the only difference in TRWs RA4 piston part number 2398 as compared to the 2262 piston is that the RA4 piston was not available in a .040” oversize, and the 56 gram difference in pin weight was due to .180” shorter pin length.

Note that the weight of both pistons is the same and the total valve notch CCs are the same as is the compression height,

[Rocky Rotella]

Steve,

That's really interesting info on the piston differences! Thanks for sharing. What catalog is that in?

As for the forged-steel crankshaft, Pontiac didn't have the ability to produce the specialty crankshaft or connecting rod forgings internally, so those components were outsourced to local OE suppliers. The 3.75-inch stroke crank from the R/A V program was among them and it carried Pontiac part number 545671.

This procurement process was also found with 4-inch crank of the SD-421 program (542990), 2.84-inch crank of the 303 program (546270), and the original 4.21-inch crank with 3-inch mains of the SD-455 program (484616). This would have also applied to the 3.375-inch stroke crank of the 366 NASCAR program. I do not have that part number, however.

Does that constitute the 3.75-inch unit being a production-line crank? Technically, no, but in that same context then neither were the SD-455 connecting rods. I guess it all in how one wants to interpret "production."

[Region Warrior]

Originally Posted by Rocky Rotella

I'D LOVE TO SEE IT! (Yes, I'm yelling!)

I know lol.
Think I gave up looking when this subject came up years ago.
Will renew search. Binders are 4" thick.
Also find my 1973 Pontiac parts manual. Pretty sure no listing of RAIV SD parts except maybe valve train. Been over 30 years since looked at it.

[Tom Vaught]

Originally Posted by Region Warrior

When I took over as a parts manager at a Pontiac dealer back in 85?...,found a Pontiac parts bulletin listing all the replacement parts for the RAIV SD.
Not sure if saved it since everything had been discontinued for years.
And if did, in which binder, in which filing cabinet, with copies of darn near every tech article since then.

Every Year I helped my Uncle do Inventory on the Parts Department.
I ordered a set of 1970 RA-IV bare cylinder heads and the related parts.
Parts were later stolen out of a storage area by some scum bags.

Now that you mention that Parts Bulletin, once I read or see something (visually) I seem to retain it for ever. I can't write it down but I remember that I read some info about the subject somewhere. 9794041 RA-IV Cam #

Some things you never forget. Rocky, the 421 SD rods were reproduced for a short period of time and relisted in the books. The 485225 part number for that 455 SD engine rod just magically popped up in my brain. Never saw "N" rods but owned "M" rods. Those rods were made for Pontiac by Continental's parent Teledyne (an aviation supplier) in Michigan.
Tom V.

[steve25]

Rocky the TRW info came out of there 1986 performance catalog .
Seing as TRW made the forged pistons that went into the factory motors am I safe in stating that they new a thing or two about them, lol!

If you look at things in light of how the auto industry worked even back then by having to have replacement parts available for production line cars for 10 years,then the these small batch numbers for these parts we are talking about is a joke !

[Tom Vaught]

Since the 485225 connecting rods Letters A thru M were installed in 1973 and 1974 455SD production engines, I would call them a production part and also a SERVICED Part sold thru a Pontiac Dealership and Parts Book.

Tom V.

Since you have the TRW Parts Book, Steve, did you know anyone who actually worked in TRW Engineering on the parts like Dennis Novotny (RIP Dennis). The RA-V Pistons I traded to Tom Jeffers, were at one time the TRW Company example for the RA-V pistons sold to GM.

[steve25]

Jay, in answer to you question from post 44 , hear are both chambers..

The polished ones are the 13 and the rusty one the 62,

They are both the same in length and width.

[steve25]

No on that Tom.
I just have a bunch of catalogs from working as a parts manager in a auto parts store from around that era and dealing with the lively street racers and drag guys from back then.

Oh , by the way, if you have not noticed by now i am a thick headed Italian, lol!

[Tom Vaught]

Some of my best friends were/are Italian.

Here is Rocky's article on the 455 SD engine. He mentions the RA-IV SD engine too.
https://www.hotrod.com/articles/pon-...55-super-duty/

Tom V.

[PontiacJim1959]

Seems most of this discussion on the 1970 Firebird "LS-1" SD RA IV is covered in Pete McCarthy's book on page 209/210.

McCarthy explores what the engine possibly would have been, seeing it would have been a mix/match of parts.

RA V block
RA V forged crank
Rods- most likely the #529238 1958-63 NASCAR rods because McCarthy was able to actually purchase a set of these in April 1970, or # 532295 which was the same as the #532294 forged production 1958-62 SD
Cam - as found in the 1970 Parts Catalog for the LS-1, a special RA IV hydraulic cam, #480737, stamped "K". Small distributor gear.
Heads - RA IV #614
Intake - aluminum #9799084
Carb - 750 Q-jet

Preliminary AMA specs of January 1970 showed the engine HP as 370 HP. It was also slated for 1971.

[Region Warrior]

Originally Posted by Rocky Rotella

I'D LOVE TO SEE IT! (Yes, I'm yelling!)

Did some searching last nite. Maybe some more this weekend.

Glanced at 73 parts catalog. Lists valve train parts "70 RAIV or SD".
Few anomalies...Lists 69 RAIV pistons, but not 70 RAIV. Or ring packs...
No 70 "SD" block, crank, rods, balancer, etc.

Agree on factory back door sales.

Back in the early 70's to late 70's, my brother got a couple Pontiac long blocks thru a local speed/machine shop cause Pontiac dealer couldn't even get parts separately.

[Tom Vaught]

I read thru your article again Rocky, reading more carefully the comments made by Dudley "Skip" McCully. Dudley was one of the few to survive the PURGE of Pontiac Engineers by Pontiac Management. Mrs Nell was not happy with the corporation for letting her husband go. For years she would not even allow any phone calls by any pontiac enthusiast (except for me and I was allowed one question and answer of short duration per phone call. There would be months between these calls, mostly dealing with the engine rebuild of Herb Adam's wifes 64 Tempest owned later and raced by the Sporl Family.

Personally I think this racing effort says it all. http://www.tachrev.com/GrandAm1973Nascar.htm

Tom V.

This is why Herb and Tom and others were fired from Pontiac by Casario.

[steve25]

I thought that it has been told that Herb Adams put in his resignation two weeks or so before the meeting and firing took place?
In effect he was already out the door because of his own actions.

[SD455DJ]

Originally Posted by steve25

I am whole Heartedly sold on the numbers that you have presented here Rocky!

Thanks once again for the info!

None the less if anyone has some stock number 12s to CC please do so if you would , I have a set of very near chamber wise stock 13s that I will CC on tomorrow night .

Steve25, Here is a stock #12 head that we cc'd a couple years ago and it was off an original WS engine. Dan cleaned the chamber and deck surface to get a good seal for the burette plate. We only measured the one chamber, but it was 68.6 cc's. It may have had one valve grind on it as the valves look recessed a little.

I also included a #16 head that is off Dan's '68 428 HO Catalina and it is an original uncut head as well and measured 74.8 cc's.

Dennis

[Tom Vaught]

Originally Posted by steve25

I thought that it has been told that Herb Adams put in his resignation two weeks or so before the meeting and firing took place?
In effect he was already out the door because of his own actions.

Spend any time in the large automotive corporate world?

Herb was management. Management knew when the people were going to be told that they were no longer needed. They make the decision typically on who goes out the door. No surprise to me that Herb would put in his resignation two weeks before the others under him were let go. He was still basically "Fired" no matter how you spin the timeline. We had several 'people will high years of service over the "40 years" I was employed by my company being handed a Cardboard Box and a security guard escorting them out the door with their few personal possessions.

That type of Clubhouse comment I am sure would not have helped Mrs Nell. (Tom Nell had to open a Bicycle Shop to keep food on the table, steve25.)

Tom V.

[gtojeff1967]

To Steve25 my cc kit is the glass veil one.
I bought used Kaffman head and they were 74 cc and i keep getting 77cc so i checked my veil and had 3 cc off.
Someone said he had some 48 and the chambers were 68 or something they may have been off the 350 HO motor?

[steve25]

Thanks much for the added CC info on the 12s and 16s!

[shermanator2]

Originally Posted by gtojeff1967

Someone said he had some 48 and the chambers were 68 or something they may have been off the 350 HO motor?

If you are talking about me, the #48 with an A139 date code that I have and came to me 40 yers ago with a WT code (400) engine out of a GTO measured 66.0 to 66.6 ccs. It appears to have never been touched with factory valves, seats, and surface.