[RAIV55]

I haven't had any issues with Powerbond dampers on the ones I've used. Other low cost dampers that given good service has been Pioneer with the snap ring and the Summit brand.

ATI Superdampers are what I recommend when asked. I know they are more expensive but what is the extra $200 to protect other high dollar parts?

[mchell]

Originally Posted by RAIV55

I haven't had any issues with Powerbond dampers on the ones I've used. Other low cost dampers that given good service has been Pioneer with the snap ring and the Summit brand.

ATI Superdampers are what I recommend when asked. I know they are more expensive but what is the extra $200 to protect other high dollar parts?

I looked at the ATI balancer, but it appeared they didn’t have a 4 bolt style available? The one I spun i believe is a pioneer with the snap ring...basically built exactly like the powerbond unit

Does the ATI clear the oil pan lip and how’s the fit on the crank snout?

Thanks

[AG]

I use BHJ and they have worked well.

[Dragncar]

Originally Posted by mchell

I looked at the ATI balancer, but it appeared they didn’t have a 4 bolt style available? The one I spun i believe is a pioneer with the snap ring...basically built exactly like the powerbond unit

Does the ATI clear the oil pan lip and how’s the fit on the crank snout?

Thanks

The place to buy a 4 bolt Pontiac SFI US made balancer that will clear the lip and work on all Pontiacs even with A/C is Nightmare Performance. They sell the BHJ balancer that he had a custom run made that will work on any Pontiac.
He paid a lot of money for the buy in but he has them in stock. I paid about 450$ for mine and if you go straight to BHJ they are close to 600$.
You need to have a 'exact" measurement of your snout down to .000 so he can match up with ones he has already measured so you get the correct press fit.
He is the guy, call him up. They are not "one size fits all".

[TedRamAirII]

With a new balancer, mark the hub and ring, so you can keep an eye on them and catch any obvious slippage.

[Schurkey]

The only time I ever exploded a torsional damper, the engine spun a bunch of rod bearings not long afterwards. The engine was assembled by morons, lasted about a year and a half.

Did the faulty damper cause crank problems?

or

Did crank problems overload the damper causing it's failure?

Since that time, I've always been squeamish about shoving a new damper onto a crank when the old damper failed. Seems like a good time to check the bearings and maybe the flywheel/clutch/flexplate...

[grandam1979]

To your original question I looked at two balancers I have the key way is about 80° they both stop at 50° and then has 90° so it’s just a close estimate.

[mchell]

Originally Posted by Schurkey

The only time I ever exploded a torsional damper, the engine spun a bunch of rod bearings not long afterwards. The engine was assembled by morons, lasted about a year and a half.

Did the faulty damper cause crank problems?

or

Did crank problems overload the damper causing it's failure?

Since that time, I've always been squeamish about shoving a new damper onto a crank when the old damper failed. Seems like a good time to check the bearings and maybe the flywheel/clutch/flexplate...

The dampener certainly wasn’t “exploded” by any stretch...it did slip.

[mchell]

Originally Posted by grandam1979

To your original question I looked at two balancers I have the key way is about 80° they both stop at 50° and then has 90° so it’s just a close estimate.

Thanks.....

[77 TRASHCAN]

Anyone else care to post balancer brands that are good... or bad? Sounds like some more education on the subject would be good, if it’s ok w/ Mike?

[1969400HO]

Interesting thread here.
My experiences, If TC (cam & crank) is at Zero with No Adv-Ret, offsets, the (installed on snout) damper should then display the “Zero” groove-line mark at the TC-Cover’s pointer-finger line / edge.

I’ve seen where the cover finger was wrong and or the damper was wrong also, at OEM instal of all parts.

It was a matter of figuring and get the proper pieces to make it sync-align, else would so cause confusion.
It all should align rather simply as designed!! (in a perfect I dream of Genie show world).

Work around I also seen is the inner mechanics of TC setting once you Do have this TC set, then THAT is the bottom line!!

You will need to make the damper its “new Zero” TDC mark.
Which is cosmetically Wrong yet the engine doesn’t care!
Just make your new Zero line mark, on the damper, like a Butler damper tape placement on it etc.

And finish the task or go gather the correct TC cover or/and damper combo pieces..

And Yes these old damper have old rubber inserts Do have a limited life span, I had one on my Honda accord spin slightly on me causing a lot of havoc & days of troubleshooting my electrical system. (poor battery charging issues-next morning No starting)

Hope this helps.

-------------------------
Don’t fall for the banana in the tailpipe!!

[Lee]

Originally Posted by TedRamAirII

With a new balancer, mark the hub and ring, so you can keep an eye on them and catch any obvious slippage.

I use a chisel, to make reference marks on the outer and inner.

I also now make a paint mark on the crank pulley, inline with the timing mark. Then, when checking timing, I can see if there has been slippage.

[Schurkey]

Originally Posted by 1969400HO

My experiences, If TC (cam & crank) is at Zero with No Adv-Ret, offsets, the (installed on snout) damper should then display the “Zero” groove-line mark at the TC-Cover’s pointer-finger line / edge.

The timing chain advance/retard has NO bearing on the TDC mark of the torsional damper lining up with the TDC mark of the timing pointer. TDC #1 is TDC #1, no matter where the cam is positioned.

Originally Posted by Lee

I use a chisel, to make reference marks on the outer and inner

Best to avoid the (sharp) chisel, as the sharp indentation makes a perfect stress-riser potentially leading to a crack.

I've put marks in dampers using a center-punch; but then I set a small ball-bearing on the punchmark and whack it with a hammer to create a rounded impression with surface compaction, to avoid cracking.

[1969400HO]

Originally Posted by mchell

Well....should have removed pulley before I posted

See pic....definitely spun

Look at the fresh shiny spots...

https://share.icloud.com/photos/0ww5...NZbYJ1OtlnwVjg

"The timing chain advance/retard has NO bearing on the TDC mark of the torsional damper lining up with the TDC mark of the timing pointer. TDC #1 is TDC #1, no matter where the cam is positioned.”

The statement was for OEM straight up cam crank align, as in whole task-job in this matter, to Clarify logic and clocking degree mechanics, that reflects including the OEM proper damper to Pointer alignment .

Offset in cam is irrelevant to damper and goes “almost” without saying, unless a Soul on the thread needs things Spelled out a little deeper--obviously.

After 45 years as an engine builder-mechanic and the winningest engine Still in my region bet Ive learned this within 3 months of understanding in the 70’s.

Like I said if dampener is OFF then “Butler “TAPE” remark it . READ the whole statement .
thx

[Lee]

Originally Posted by Schurkey

The timing chain advance/retard has NO bearing on the TDC mark of the torsional damper lining up with the TDC mark of the timing pointer. TDC #1 is TDC #1, no matter where the cam is positioned.

Best to avoid the (sharp) chisel, as the sharp indentation makes a perfect stress-riser potentially leading to a crack.

I've put marks in dampers using a center-punch; but then I set a small ball-bearing on the punchmark and whack it with a hammer to create a rounded impression with surface compaction, to avoid cracking.

Not like it is a crank gear, no real stresses on THAT part of damper. Being doing that for over 20 years without an issue. Doesn't need to be deep, just enough to make it obvious.

[unclescratch]

I had one that had slipped about 5/8-inch. Verified that with a piston stop and rotating by hand in both directions. New balancer checked 'perfect' using same technique.

[mchell]

Lord....that’s a range of responses

New balancer is installed, all back to normal again.

I ended up with a Romac balancer due to the powerbond not being in stock.

As others have noted with the Romac, I had to bend the lip of the oil pan slightly to clearance the balancer hub. Other than that, no issues.

Thanks for the feedback

[chuckies76ta]

Originally Posted by 77 TRASHCAN

Anyone else care to post balancer brands that are good... or bad? Sounds like some more education on the subject would be good, if it’s ok w/ Mike?

I'm running the ATI one. From what I understand when you get in the upper H/P levels, its good to move to a more reliable balancer. I had to remove a small portion of the timing tab. I had not issues with oil pan lip and I just took my pulley and drilled 3 new holes as the balancer uses 3- 3/8" bolts versus 4-5/16" bolts. I run the powerbond on 2 engines with 600 hp and 600 T with no issues so far.



Charles

[68azbird]

piston stop on number 1 ?