[4dblnkldude]

So I am on the hunt for an early second gen TA. I see one for sale locally on marketplace not far from me. It is advertised as a Royal bobcat TA and says "one of the last ones". Obviously I am a Pontiac guy and never remember reading about any TA's getting this treatment...tons of GTO's but not Trans ams. This particular car is a 71 455 HO automatic. There are no pics of the interior or the engine on FB. What gives? There has to be some documentation from royal pontiac... correct? I am going to look at it tomorrow and this is a high buck car, not what I am used to. The vin number is 228871N103123, does anyone know anything about this car? This is a big chunk for me.

[1965gp]

Not being an expert like some here- I think you could take any car to them or order parts to get the ‘Bobcat’ treatment. I do agree that now that you bring it up it certainly seems odd that there wouldn’t be any ‘Bobcat 69-73 Trans Ams?

[4dblnkldude]

Damn its on ebay too.

[4dblnkldude]

Originally Posted by 1965gp

Not being an expert like some here- I think you could take any car to them or order parts to get the ‘Bobcat’ treatment. I do agree that now that you bring it up it certainly seems odd that there wouldn’t be any ‘Bobcat 69-73 Trans Ams?

I thought they stopped the racing/modification business in 1970?

[sd7369]

I looked at this car a little more than a year ago and it had many things wrong. Was restored back in the 90's and has been well used. Original engine but has headers, wrong fenders, wrong carb and distributor,. Had GM quarters put on it and is cracking at the roof joint, Handmade door panels, 69 wood auto knob, has a 67 big Pontiac am-fm in it, super bad steering wheel, underhood wiring was a mess, many fluid leaks. Did not run worth a crap when I saw it, but was a very cold day. It had not been run much; backing it in and out of garage many times and fouled 3-4 plugs. Paint is about a 7.5. I know there are more problems but can't remember anything else.

I told the original seller (not the current one) that it would need at least 10K worth of work to bring it to at least decent driver quality and be reasonably correct without any repainting of parts.

As far as the Royal Bobcat, unless he had a receipt to prove his claims, it was just hearsay and was meaningless UNLESS HE COULD PROVE IT. Needless to say, this could not be done so therefore it was an empty statement. Just because it was sold by Royal, doesn't mean it was a Bobcat despite the decals.

I had the car bought for 32K but the current owner swooped in with an offer in excess of 40K so I was told. It has been at mecham Kissemmee last year (unsold) and ebay 2-3 times.

Hope this helps.

[sd7369]

There is another thread about this car, search for it.

[4dblnkldude]

VERY valuable info!!! Thank you!!

[Tellyshavilli]

Originally Posted by sd7369

I looked at this car a little more than a year ago and it had many things wrong. Was restored back in the 90's and has been well used. Original engine but has headers, wrong fenders, wrong carb and distributor,. Had GM quarters put on it and is cracking at the roof joint, Handmade door panels, 69 wood auto knob, has a 67 big Pontiac am-fm in it, super bad steering wheel, underhood wiring was a mess, many fluid leaks. Did not run worth a crap when I saw it, but was a very cold day. It had not been run much; backing it in and out of garage many times and fouled 3-4 plugs. Paint is about a 7.5. I know there are more problems but can't remember anything else.

I told the original seller (not the current one) that it would need at least 10K worth of work to bring it to at least decent driver quality and be reasonably correct without any repainting of parts.

As far as the Royal Bobcat, unless he had a receipt to prove his claims, it was just hearsay and was meaningless UNLESS HE COULD PROVE IT. Needless to say, this could not be done so therefore it was an empty statement. Just because it was sold by Royal, doesn't mean it was a Bobcat despite the decals.

I had the car bought for 32K but the current owner swooped in with an offer in excess of 40K so I was told. It has been at mecham Kissemmee last year (unsold) and ebay 2-3 times.

Hope this helps.

Good info

[Baron Von Zeppelin]

I have a copy of PHS invoice from when the car was for sale on eBay in May 2015.
Don't remember much about it, other than hoopla was hyped on it then too.

Being sold new at Royal is a positive factor to most people and would have some bearing to overall value.
And it is a really neat factoid.

At the same time - it means it was a Michigan Car
and i wouldn't touch it unless I could highly scrutinize it in person for several hours.
The fenders and quarters are known replacements - probably just about every panel except the roof has been replaced in view of that - combined with the Michigan heritage.

A super solid car from a no-salt state would be worth way more to me than the name of the selling dealer on the invoice.

There's a reason it keeps getting resold continually.

[RUDOLFSSON]

I had to look it up...

Not a F-body guy and never seen a bobcat sticker on this type of car.. what an awful placement for this type of emblem.. huhhh

EBAY LINK: https://www.ebay.com/itm/1971-Pontia...MAAOSwkUJfmJLw

[TAKerry]

It looks priced to be right along with a 71 ta, but it would have to be about 90% perfect for me to part with that kinda cash. I agree that the being sold new at Royal is a neat conversation piece, but I wouldnt pay any more money for it just because.

[1969GiPper]

Originally Posted by TAKerry

It looks priced to be right along with a 71 ta, but it would have to be about 90% perfect for me to part with that kinda cash. I agree that the being sold new at Royal is a neat conversation piece, but I wouldnt pay any more money for it just because.

The name on the document is the name of the dealer that ordered the vehicle and/or the ship to dealer. Just like today the vehicle could end up being traded to another Pontiac dealer in the area and then sold to the first owner. Very common practice then and now. Unless someone has supporting sales documentation (bill of sale, etc) then it can only be “assumed” Royal was the selling dealer.

[4dblnkldude]

I passed on it. Thank you so much!!! No docs to support really anything. Still gonna keep looking though.

[4dblnkldude]

I thought about this a lot the last couple days, pretty much dominating my thoughts. If I bought a numbers restored car, I may not be happy. I will do donuts in a restored #'s car, so now I'm onto non #'s or even a TA clone of this vintage.

[dhcarguy]

Originally Posted by 4dblnkldude

I thought they stopped the racing/modification business in 1970?

Yes your right. Ace Wilson sold the performance division to (i think) , John DeLorean's brother in 1970.
Ace sold the dealership in 1974.

Dave

[necdb3]

Originally Posted by dhcarguy

Yes your right. Ace Wilson sold the performance division to (i think) , John DeLorean's brother in 1970.
Ace sold the dealership in 1974.

Dave

IIRC, it was sold twice in 1970.

[Sirrotica]

By 1971 George DeLorean had the bobcat install at Leader Automotive, so even if it did have the bobcat treatment, it wouldn't have been performed at Royal, it would have been done at Leader Automotive.

Without documentation, it's just hearsay, makes for a good story, but far from proof.

[FrankieT/A]

Originally Posted by sd7369

I looked at this car a little more than a year ago and it had many things wrong. Was restored back in the 90's and has been well used. Original engine but has headers, wrong fenders, wrong carb and distributor,. Had GM quarters put on it and is cracking at the roof joint, Handmade door panels, 69 wood auto knob, has a 67 big Pontiac am-fm in it, super bad steering wheel, underhood wiring was a mess, many fluid leaks. Did not run worth a crap when I saw it, but was a very cold day. It had not been run much; backing it in and out of garage many times and fouled 3-4 plugs. Paint is about a 7.5. I know there are more problems but can't remember anything else.

I told the original seller (not the current one) that it would need at least 10K worth of work to bring it to at least decent driver quality and be reasonably correct without any repainting of parts.

As far as the Royal Bobcat, unless he had a receipt to prove his claims, it was just hearsay and was meaningless UNLESS HE COULD PROVE IT. Needless to say, this could not be done so therefore it was an empty statement. Just because it was sold by Royal, doesn't mean it was a Bobcat despite the decals.

I had the car bought for 32K but the current owner swooped in with an offer in excess of 40K so I was told. It has been at mecham Kissemmee last year (unsold) and ebay 2-3 times.

Hope this helps.

Says same owner for the last 40 years....I guess no one has titled it in their name for forty years? I'm thinking that car has a fishy past.

[mgarblik]

The "Royal Bobcat" name applied to this particular TA would only have real meaning IF the car was a Royal Pontiac Dealer owned and verified car with full documentation. The "Bobcat Kit", dealer installed or not, really didn't have much content. Essentially a couple distributor springs, carburetor jets, generally thinner head gaskets and a few other trinkets. It's cool and makes a nice little story but added value? Maybe $500.00-1000.00. The car has to stand on it's own merits, not just a 50 year old super tune, if it even has it. I mean no disrespect to Royal Pontiac or Milt Schornack, He was a good friend of mine and a great mechanic.

[4dblnkldude]

Thanks for the comments and info guys! I was ready to liquidate. I got all giddy like a school girl.