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#21
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Looks like a 744 (RA3) to me.. I measured 32 deg. dwell @ max lift. The only Pontiac cam I know of with that blunt nose- but I'm sure I'll be corrected
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#22
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I ran a McKellar #10 camshaft in college in a basically stock 389 engine (but it was a fresh rebuild). The cam had the blunt nose profile (but slightly more camshaft lift, but the lash basically made it much like the 744 camshaft). It did have more duration vs the 744 camshaft though.
Tom V.
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"Engineers do stuff for reasons" Tom Vaught Despite small distractions, there are those who will go Forward, Learning, Sharing Knowledge, Doing what they can to help others move forward. |
#23
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I have found most if not all raw Pontiac camshaft castings was made by CWC (Textron).
The final machining may have been done by Camshaft Machine Company or Melling? CMC for aftermarket and Melling for OEM? |
#24
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Agree that the raw castings were made by CWC (Textron), in massive amounts.
I believe Camshaft Machine Company and Melling were two of the largest volume OEM suppliers but TRW was also in the game as well as Sealed Power after they bought up a lot of companies that were small in size but doing some camshaft work. BIG OEM would be GM, Ford, Chrysler (before the Europeans and Japanese either bought companies or established plants in the USA. Tom V.
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"Engineers do stuff for reasons" Tom Vaught Despite small distractions, there are those who will go Forward, Learning, Sharing Knowledge, Doing what they can to help others move forward. |
#25
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Kind of steering back to the OP's question about this camshaft and what it is specifically: If you want to know 100% for sure what this camshaft is, there are two good choices. You can install it in any old Pontiac block with a degree wheel and a dial indicator and "roll it" to create a cam map or diagram. Takes about 1/2 hour if you have a block sitting around. Another option is to find a race engine shop that has a "Cam Doctor" to map the camshaft out of the engine. Again a pretty simple project. I would think BES would have a Cam Doctor, or Indy Cylinder heads. There are probably several hundred of them scattered across the country. You could probably contact the company and they could tell you who in your area might have one. I have one at my school acquired from Joe Mondello estate, but it's not up and running at this time. Software is way outdated and waiting for funding to at least get us out of the floppy disc era. Software was written for Windows 3.1. That's pretty old. Or we can keep guessing. Here is a link to the Cam Doctor: http://www.audietech.com/product/cam-pro-plus/
Last edited by mgarblik; 05-30-2021 at 09:59 AM. |
#26
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Quote:
Stan
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Stan Weiss/World Wide Enterprises Offering Performance Software Since 1987 http://www.magneticlynx.com/carfor/carfor.htm David Vizard & Stan Weiss' IOP / Flow / Induction Optimization - Cam Selection Software http://www.magneticlynx.com/DV Download FREE 14 Trial IOP / Flow Software http://www.magneticlynx.com/DV/Flow_..._Day_Trial.php Pontiac Pump Gas List http://www.magneticlynx.com/carfor/pont_gas.htm Using PMD Block and Heads List http://www.magneticlynx.com/carfor/pont_pmd.htm |
#27
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Quote:
Dennis |
#28
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Don't be surprised if the Cam key way is machined slightly off from spec as it is a Melling camshaft.
Tom V.
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"Engineers do stuff for reasons" Tom Vaught Despite small distractions, there are those who will go Forward, Learning, Sharing Knowledge, Doing what they can to help others move forward. |
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#29
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Quote:
Every time a discussion like this one pops up, I reach for my HO Racing books. Still some of the best Pontiac reference materials out there. Thanks again!!! |
#30
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a) Get Pete McCarthy's Book
b) #10 is a Mechanical cam. 744 is a hydraulic RA with manual transmission. c) Pontiac marketing was playing all kinds of games with models and HP in the early 70s. Engines with two different cams would have the same ratings in a specific model (A-body) and different ratings for that same engine/cam in another. And then there were the carb games. (bend a tab, gain 30 hp). |
#31
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Pictures of a NOS 068 ‘S’ cam that’s currently and probably forever residing in my ‘64 421 HO.
Note the shape of the 068 exhaust lobe (302 advertised duration) pictured. It should look nearly identical to the intake lobe (301 duration) on a 744 cam. That shape doesn’t match up with the intake lobe on the 521596 cam. I seriously doubt that the pictures of the 541596 are of a cam that’s really a 744 cam just from looking at the visual cues. 068 Intake lobe - 288 duration. 068 Exhaust lobe - 302 duration. Intake lobe on the 541596 cam - 308 duration - clearly wider and flatter over the nose than the 302 duration 068 exhaust lobe.
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1964 Tempest Coupe LS3/4L70E/3.42 1964 Le Mans Convertible 421 HO/TH350/2.56 2002 WS6 Convertible LS1/4L60E/3.23 |
#32
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I have to agree with B-man on this one as I ran one for years on the street, it is now sitting "used" on the shelf.
I have run the 744 High Lift Camshaft in several engines, (sold by Wolverine Cams) and made by CMC and it thumps slightly different vs the old 541596 cam. The 068 cam is a "milk toast" hydraulic profile that barely thumps at all. No comparison in my mind. The 744 high Lift CMC cam actually looks somewhat like a Ram Air 4 camshaft to a person who has seen them side by side. Tom V.
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"Engineers do stuff for reasons" Tom Vaught Despite small distractions, there are those who will go Forward, Learning, Sharing Knowledge, Doing what they can to help others move forward. |
#33
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just some thoughts but for 1970 at least, mild to wild was 067, 068, 744, 041. In General the more cubes, the more cam you could have. 067 and 068 were mostly for automatics, others were best with a manual trans. All were hydraulic. I have a 744 in my Judge. After 72 except for the SD, cams were mostly ded.
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#34
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The 744 (best known as the Ram Air III cam) was phased out mid year 1969 and was replaced with the 068, nothing built in 1970 came with the 744.
455 engines only came with the 067 and 068 cam, so more cubes didn’t generally dictate a bigger cam. The biggest cam (041) went into the 400 RAIV.
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1964 Tempest Coupe LS3/4L70E/3.42 1964 Le Mans Convertible 421 HO/TH350/2.56 2002 WS6 Convertible LS1/4L60E/3.23 |
#35
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Agree, 744 was replaced by the 068 in late 69. I just like the 744.
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#36
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Quote:
I reads to me that he was saying that a larger displacement engine can have better driveability with a larger cam (compared to a smaller displacement engine using the same cam), but as you mentioned, it doesn't necessarily mean the larger displacement engine will have a larger camshaft.
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#37
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Degreed the #10 Cam...Results
OK, so we have the results…Dan degreed the cam and the specs are amazing…no doubt it is a #10 grind: 235*I/248*E/114* LSA @ .050”; intake ICL 106*; exhaust ECL 122*, so intake is ground 8* advanced; 322*I/361*E @ .006”; .416” I/.419” E @ 1.50 RR. Yes, you read right 322*/361* @ .006” lift on several lobes! I imagine with the .020”/.022” lash clearances would bring those numbers down closer to the 308*/320* numbers. Dan didn't get any duration numbers at .200".
Dennis |
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#38
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Great work by all. Looks like you have a good #10 camshaft from Melling.
Tom V.
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"Engineers do stuff for reasons" Tom Vaught Despite small distractions, there are those who will go Forward, Learning, Sharing Knowledge, Doing what they can to help others move forward. |
The Following User Says Thank You to Tom Vaught For This Useful Post: | ||
#39
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Quote:
From a friend who worked at Oldsmobile, they often took the curb weight of the car, divided by "X" (10, in a lot of cases), and that was the HP rating. Yes, it was marketing and BS. All these hotrod parts only gain 5hp, but changing this one meaningless thing is 40hp in another model.
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#40
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Quote:
Dennis |
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