GTO Failure from the Goat's mouth...

[Karch]

Well, I think the Mustang was the first Pony car. In fact, it was the Mustang, and it's name, that brought that term into being.

GM did infact rush to bring something out, and 3 years was quite fast for an all new style..the camaro, then the Firebird, after Delorean's Banshee idea got scrapped and he had to make do with the camaro components.

And, before you say the Mustang was new sheet metal on the Falcon chassis, remember that the GTO was actually a LeMans, they just took the 389 engines from the larger cars, added stiffer springs, redline tires, some badges, a new hood, and an option of the order form. Basically, a high performance LeMans.

Don't get me wrong, I love the cars, them image, the heritage. But, you also need to give credit where credit is due.

[87LC2]

September 1997 Popular Hot Rodding "Double The Power"
Pg 54 110,000 mile untouched 1986 GN test mule
stock rwhp = 200
chip = 231
catback = 245
ram air = 258
headers = 287 rwhp

October 1997
Pg 38
front mount intercooler = 307
70 mm throttle body/plenum = 332
T3 turbo (small) = 369 rwhp 476 rwtq ~ 461 hp/595 tq
synthetic oils = 376
crank boost from 17 to 21 psi = 402 rwhp

January 1999
Pg 46
mild cam = 419
heads = 456 rwhp

With out touching the factory long block you can haul the mail. I did this build starting in 1987, piece at a time. But I'm unwilling to open the original engine, it seems to be doing just fine

[jeffhhs76]

Originally Posted by 87LC2

September 1997 Popular Hot Rodding "Double The Power"
Pg 54 110,000 mile untouched 1986 GN test mule
stock rwhp = 200
chip = 231
catback = 245
ram air = 258
headers = 287 rwhp

October 1997
Pg 38
front mount intercooler = 307
70 mm throttle body/plenum = 332
T3 turbo (small) = 369 rwhp 476 rwtq ~ 461 hp/595 tq
synthetic oils = 376
crank boost from 17 to 21 psi = 402 rwhp

January 1999
Pg 46
mild cam = 419
heads = 456 rwhp

With out touching the factory long block you can haul the mail. I did this build starting in 1987, piece at a time. But I'm unwilling to open the original engine, it seems to be doing just fine

THAT..is unbelievable!!!! The stock lower end of that engine must have been bulletproof!!! I think of what I had to do to get 435HP out of my GTO's 400 it's just amazes me that this kind of power can be generated from a V6 with bolt on's..... Outstanding!!!! Must be a blast to drive!! Don't you have to put a roll cage in the car to run 11's? or is it 10's that require it?

[Bob Hall]

The Buick 231 ci engine. That's probably the best engine on the planet.

[Karch]

It's boosted. Remember, 14.7 psi boost, at a comparable air inlet temp, will double torque (and thereby horsepower) at a given rpm, assuming everything else is equal (and that is a huge assumption, which never equates...there are pumping losses and more).

11.49 and faster is the current roll bar/cage requirement.

[87LC2]

Fun to drive and a little scary on street radials
The stock bottom end is good for 650 hp, remember these things only rev to 5500 max stock, 5000 is like shift point...torque!
In theory at 14.7 psi boost, the 231 is equal to a 462 in displacement, I'm running 20 psi so I'm looking at 545 ci All this is lost in VE and head flow numbers but boost still rules. My stock turbo was still running strong at 88,000 miles when I finally upgraded to a more efficient turbo, the last piece of the puzzle.
That 'flash in the pan' is still burning @sses
Still a turbo car requires special care, oil has been changed every 1500 miles, it is allowed to idle at LEAST one minute before shut down to allow the turbo to spin down and oil to cool, and the fans are run on the cool down ride and the engine temp is brought down to 160*, just my anal ritual. These engines came from formula one or cart whatever in the '80's and detuned for the street(not the same engine specifically, just same concept Buick V6 Turbo)

Yeah this is my forever car, no doubt...it was ugly, bland, and overpriced when I bought it

LOL

[jeffhhs76]

Originally Posted by 87LC2

Yeah this is my forever car, no doubt...it was ugly, bland, and overpriced when I bought it

LOL

Touche!!!

[red70goat]

Originally Posted by 87LC2

I have only so much time and space to devote to my cars, one must go, the choice is simple.

Yeah, the import posing as a GTO.

[Mr_GTO]

Originally Posted by red70goat

Yeah, the import posing as a GTO.

Oh the Troll is back....

[87LC2]

Originally Posted by red70goat

Yeah, the import posing as a GTO.

More like the '69 GTO posing as a performance car.

I missed you

[disc0monkey]

Originally Posted by Mr_GTO

Oh the Troll is back....

my dumbass radar was going off, i had to see it for myself. to say that this GTO is better than any other is crazy

[Mr_GTO]

Originally Posted by disc0monkey

my dumbass radar was going off, i had to see it for myself. to say that this GTO is better than any other is crazy

Blah blah blah..another troll back...

[David Jones]

Originally Posted by Mr_GTO

Blah blah blah..another troll back...

[Mr_GTO]

Originally Posted by David Jones

Sorry but the rolling eyes don't change that fact.

[Mr_GTO]

Originally Posted by David Jones

Sorry but the rolling eyes don't change that fact.

[87LC2]

Originally Posted by Mr_GTO

Blah blah blah..another troll back...

I think they work in shifts.

[red70goat]

Originally Posted by 87LC2

More like the '69 GTO posing as a performance car.

Gee, maybe that's why the '69 GTO continues to appreciate in value while the GM Monaro continues to slide. 10 years from now we'll see scores of 06s on these "We'll Finance Anybody" car lots just like we're seeing the 04s now. Anybody that would sell a 69 GTO for an 06 needs a check up from the neck up. The 06 is by far a better car in ever way but certainly not worth keeping in the long run, unlike the 69.

[pont3]

Originally Posted by red70goat

Gee, maybe that's why the '69 GTO continues to appreciate in value while the GM Monaro continues to slide. 10 years from now we'll see scores of 06s on these "We'll Finance Anybody" car lots just like we're seeing the 04s now. Anybody that would sell a 69 GTO for an 06 needs a check up from the neck up. The 06 is by far a better car in ever way but certainly not worth keeping in the long run, unlike the 69.

Damn, Red, are you getting senile? I'm sure you remember when you could also buy a '69 GTO from a buy-here-pay-here lot. You'll also see Lexus, Benz, BMW, Lincolns, Caddys, Infinitys on those same lots. I see plenty of the "gotta have" Mustangs on those lots as well.

Moral of this story is, anybody can make a prediction. Only time will tell who's right. I'm keeping mine regardless.

[HUMBLER]

I drove past a Ford dealer yesterday, must have been 45 of the same Mustangs on the lot as last time I drove by, beginning of Summer, that can't be good...

Anyone catch the new GTO commercial? It was on Speed during the new show called Setup w/ Tommy Kendall? Very cool show!

[red70goat]

Originally Posted by pont3

Only time will tell who's right. I'm keeping mine regardless.

As well you should if really like the car. Drive it 'till the wheels off I say and enjoy every minute of it. Problem is, as far as value appreciation, the 04-06 GM Monaro looks like every other car out there, including the Japanese imports. The 69 GTO may have looked like other domestic cars in it's day but certainly not the enmasse cookie cutter design prevelant today among all manufacturers, foreign and domestic. To sell a classic GTO to buy a GM Monaro is the definitive benchmark in stupidity.