GTO Failure from the Goat's mouth...

[87LC2]

How about this...
For sale 1969 GTO

[87LC2]

Originally Posted by red70goat

To sell a classic GTO to buy a GM Monaro is the definitive benchmark in stupidity.

Who's doing that?

I have a new Monaro and am selling a 1969 GTO, but the two are not related. In the process of buying the new fabulous 2006 Monaro, I offered the '69 in partial trade to fellow Pontiac enthusiasts with no interest. No big deal, I have the Monaro and couldn't be happier, other than having a numbers matching Cali '69 that is collecting dust. It seems that everybody wants to look at old cars, no one really has the time, space or money to own one. So it sits, I drive it once in a while to keep everything moving, but it sits in storage getting older and in your eyes more valuable. To me it's a day out of the month I have to F with it, I could use that day for something else and someone could enjoy the car.
So it's for sale...

[red70goat]

Originally Posted by 87LC2

Who's doing that?..

Apparently you are.

" I have 3 cars...one has to go. The choice is simple."

Like I said, selling a classic GTO to make room for a cookie cutter import, aka selling an appreciable asset: aka 69 GTO ( fact ) for a decling one :aka 04-06 GM Monaro ( fact ), is a benchmark in stupidity.

[Stuckinda60s]

The new high performance version of the G8 would be more aptly called GTO than the Monaro, simply because the GTO was simply a high performance version of the Tempest line. The sales of the Tempest served to supplement the gearheads buying the GTO. It's a simple premise, used by Pontiac and others after the original Goat came out. Look at the Mustang, most of it's sales in the past 15-years have been base models with v6's.

I predicted on this site that the new Goat would fail just because it didn't have a base consumer model or the higher sales from it to bring down the unit cost. I think I was proven right and really hope that Pontiac gets it right with the G8. And, I think it would be proper for them to call their high performance model a GTO, don't you?

Rich

[dancolkate]

Originally Posted by Stuckinda60s

I think I was proven right and really hope that Pontiac gets it right with the G8. And, I think it would be proper for them to call their high performance model a GTO, don't you?

Rich

A four door GTO?

Surely you must be joking.

[87LC2]

Originally Posted by red70goat

Apparently you are.

" I have 3 cars...one has to go. The choice is simple."

Like I said, selling a classic GTO to make room for a cookie cutter import, aka selling an appreciable asset: aka 69 GTO ( fact ) for a decling one :aka 04-06 GM Monaro ( fact ), is a benchmark in stupidity.

Stupid is as stupid does.
If 1969 is sold for a profit, I win.
Value of 1969 goes up every day, you said so yourself. The car must be sold to realize an increase in value. I thought you would be happy a classic Pontiac was being returned to circulation. If I had free storage I would sit on it, but I don't. The car has not been driven since Christmas, I feel bad for her. I want to let her out of prison
I will never regret the purchase of the Monaro, who knows what it will be worth in forty years. Don't forget it wasn't long ago the 1969 would have sold for $1200, in 1982 I could have had a '69 Judge for $1000. I thought it was too much for a car with almost 100,000 miles. LOL

[87LC2]

For the 1969 being such a great car, no one here even showed any interest.
All bench talk
I got more interest and compliments from the Monaro owners.
That shows you who really likes cars.

[Mr_GTO]

Originally Posted by Stuckinda60s

The new high performance version of the G8 would be more aptly called GTO than the Monaro, simply because the GTO was simply a high performance version of the Tempest line. The sales of the Tempest served to supplement the gearheads buying the GTO. It's a simple premise, used by Pontiac and others after the original Goat came out. Look at the Mustang, most of it's sales in the past 15-years have been base models with v6's.

I predicted on this site that the new Goat would fail just because it didn't have a base consumer model or the higher sales from it to bring down the unit cost. I think I was proven right and really hope that Pontiac gets it right with the G8. And, I think it would be proper for them to call their high performance model a GTO, don't you?

Rich

Uh? Pontiac still does that...they sell TONS of G6/Grand Prix, etc. The GTO didn't "fail". It was never MEANT to be a high volume car. You're only right in your own mind..nothing else.

[HUMBLER]

I was going to say, yeah, maybe if you cut out 2 doors...and that may just be the next GTO. An up tier G8 called a GTO though, put the pipe down...

[Stuckinda60s]

Originally Posted by Mr_GTO

Uh? Pontiac still does that...they sell TONS of G6/Grand Prix, etc. The GTO didn't "fail". It was never MEANT to be a high volume car. You're only right in your own mind..nothing else.

Yeah, in retrospect, I shouldn't have said failed. Let's just say it wasn't a "rousing success". What I'd predicted was that it wouldn't take off. It was a 3-year marketing experiment that didn't generate enough interest to warrant continuance. IF they hadn't had to discount them to get them to sell, IF they hadn't had dealers, who'd taken the plunge, with them sitting on their lots, IF they hadn't had mechanical issues, IF they hadn't had to wait for replacement parts when something failed and IF they had the styling to appeal to their target buyers (due to the high price), they might have been a success.

And the success of the G6/Grand Prix simply goes to prove my point about making the Goat an upscale performance model, doesn't it? The G6 didn't even have a 2-door model when it came out.

Look at Ford's success with the MACH1 in comparison. The Goat's a better car in most respects and still can't generate the same excitement. I'm sorry it can't, I'd like to have seen it continue, it's a great car.

Originally Posted by HUMBLER

I was going to say, yeah, maybe if you cut out 2 doors...and that may just be the next GTO. An up tier G8 called a GTO though, put the pipe down...

Once again, if you want the Goat to be a success, it needs to have a base model, JUST LIKE THE ORIGINAL DID. And, the G6 and (fwd)Grand Prix didn't have a 2-door model when they first came out.

No pipe-smokers, here, get your head out of the clouds and live in the real world for a change. The goal of any car model is sales, if you want to see them stay on the market they have to bring in more than it costs to get them to the consumer.

Rich

[Mr_GTO]

Originally Posted by Stuckinda60s

Yeah, in retrospect, I shouldn't have said failed. Let's just say it wasn't a "rousing success". What I'd predicted was that it wouldn't take off. It was a 3-year marketing experiment that didn't generate enough interest to warrant continuance. IF they hadn't had to discount them to get them to sell, IF they hadn't had dealers, who'd taken the plunge, with them sitting on their lots, IF they hadn't had mechanical issues, IF they hadn't had to wait for replacement parts when something failed and IF they had the styling to appeal to their target buyers (due to the high price), they might have been a success.

And the success of the G6/Grand Prix simply goes to prove my point about making the Goat an upscale performance model, doesn't it? The G6 didn't even have a 2-door model when it came out.

Look at Ford's success with the MACH1 in comparison. The Goat's a better car in most respects and still can't generate the same excitement. I'm sorry it can't, I'd like to have seen it continue, it's a great car.


Once again, if you want the Goat to be a success, it needs to have a base model. And, the G6 and (fwd)Grand Prix didn't have a 2-door model when they first came out.

Rich

Rich, you're dead wrong AGAIN!. The car was going out of production after 06 ANYWAY! Stop talking about things you know NOTHING about.

What does not having a 2dr G6 have anything to do with this? The GA had a two door and sold a lot as well.

LOL, the Mach 1? Jesus....Trust me when I tell you that it wasn't a "sales sucess" either.

[red70goat]

Originally Posted by 87LC2

Don't forget it wasn't long ago the 1969 would have sold for $1200, in 1982 I could have had a '69 Judge for $1000. I thought it was too much for a car with almost 100,000 miles. LOL

The 69 Judge didn't look like it's dominant foreign competitiors and was uniquely Pontiac unlike the crossbred and generic GM Monaro.

[red70goat]

Originally Posted by 87LC2

For the 1969 being such a great car,

Maybe not great but certainly cooler than a GM Monaro.

[red70goat]

Originally Posted by Mr_GTO

The GTO didn't "fail". It was never MEANT to be a high volume car. You're only right in your own mind..nothing else.

Stuckinda60s:Ignore Mr_Gee_I_Don't_Know. He apparently will believe whatever GM spoon feeds the masses, other than their Vice Chairman admitting the GM Monaro was a failure.

[Mr_GTO]

Originally Posted by red70goat

Stuckinda60s:Ignore Mr_Gee_I_Don't_Know. He apparently will believe whatever GM spoon feeds the masses, other than their Vice Chairman admitting the GM Monaro was a failure.

Oh joy, the troll returns.

[Stuckinda60s]

Originally Posted by Mr_GTO

Rich, you're dead wrong AGAIN!. The car was going out of production after 06 ANYWAY! Stop talking about things you know NOTHING about.

What does not having a 2dr G6 have anything to do with this? The GA had a two door and sold a lot as well.

LOL, the Mach 1? Jesus....Trust me when I tell you that it wasn't a "sales sucess" either.

The initial GTO was an experiment. Pontiac expected to sell 18,000 and were shocked to sell 31,000. That is what constitutes a success. Are you so naive that you actually think GM would have halted production if they had enjoyed similar sales numbers of the new one. Do you forget that the projection was for 3-years of imports and THEN possible DOMESTIC production. Who's talking about things they know nothing about?

BOB LUTZ HIMSELF SAID THE GTO WAS A FAILURE, ARE YOU SAYING HE DOESN'T KNOW WHAT HE'S TALKING ABOUT, EITHER.

I don't know why you've got your panties in such a wad, but before you make such bald-faaced statements about who does and doesn't know what they're talking about you should do a little research to back yourself up before you stick your foot in your mouth.

The reference to The 2-door G6 was not addressed to you, it was addressed to HUMBLER's posting about the G8.

Rich

[Mr_GTO]

Originally Posted by Stuckinda60s

The initial GTO was an experiment. Pontiac expected to sell 18,000 and were shocked to sell 31,000. That is what constitutes a success. Are you so naive that you actually think GM would have halted production if they had enjoyed similar sales numbers of the new one. Do you forget that the projection was for 3-years of imports and THEN possible DOMESTIC production. Who's talking about things they know nothing about?

BOB LUTZ HIMSELF SAID THE GTO WAS A FAILURE, ARE YOU SAYING HE DOESN'T KNOW WHAT HE'S TALKING ABOUT, EITHER.

I don't know why you've got your panties in such a wad, but before you make such bald-faaced statements about who does and doesn't know what they're talking about you should do a little research to back yourself up before you stick your foot in your mouth.

The reference to The 2-door G6 was not addressed to you, it was addressed to HUMBLER's posting about the G8.

Rich

Rich, you're just IGNORANT on the subject. The Monaro was supposed to be discontinued in 2004...when Lutz went over in 2002 and hammered out a deal for a 3 year contract(why was it 3 years you ask?). Because the car wouldn't meet 2007 US Crash standards. He said it was OVERPRICED, not a failure. It's too bad the old ****s didn't embrace the car because, oh god forbid, it doesn't look exactly like a old one. Well neither does the Corvette. Plenty of people who drove one knew it lived up to everythign the old one did and more. This car actually can handle.

[HUMBLER]

Originally Posted by Stuckinda60s

Once again, if you want the Goat to be a success, it needs to have a base model, JUST LIKE THE ORIGINAL DID. And, the G6 and (fwd)Grand Prix didn't have a 2-door model when they first came out.

No pipe-smokers, here, get your head out of the clouds and live in the real world for a change. The goal of any car model is sales, if you want to see them stay on the market they have to bring in more than it costs to get them to the consumer.

Rich

Let's see 18K produced in a year max was the fact, so at 35K or 25K the total sales would still only be 18K a year. Oh yeah a base model would have helped tremendously!!!

[87LC2]

Originally Posted by red70goat

Maybe not great but certainly cooler than a GM Monaro.

The 1969 is cooler if you like lawn chairs.
The 'Monaro' is cooler if I want to go anywhere with my wife.

Life's too short to sit in a parking lot guarding a car.
I'd rather sit in the car and hug the guard rails.

To each his own

[Stuckinda60s]

Originally Posted by HUMBLER

Let's see 18K produced in a year max was the fact, so at 35K or 25K the total sales would still only be 18K a year. Oh yeah a base model would have helped tremendously!!!

Exactly, it was a failed premise from the beginning. It was over-priced so they sat on the dealers' lots. A small dealer in my area still had an '04 when the '06's came out. Small dealers can't afford to pay the interest on that expensive a car for that length of time. I read of some dealers having 4 or 5 of them for extended periods of time.

Once again, for those having a hard time understanding what I posted, I LIKE THE CAR!!! I'm just not willing to pay the money they were asking for it and I really feel that I was the demographic they were trying to sell to. I would have liked to see it be a success because it could have helped Pontiac tremendously. There are so many things the car could have done. Instead it was a disappointment. Sure it handles, runs rings around most cars on the road and is comfortable. Those don't mean anything if they don't inspire sales. When a car needs to be discounted to sell, it means a couple of things. One, that it's over-priced (!) Two, that it's not attractive to the targeted buyer. When they were discounted they still didn't sell, probably because people had made their minds up before and couldn't be pulled in.

All emotional arguments aside, what I (and others) have stated is nothing but FACT. Call me ignorant or whatever you like, you can't change the facts. I think I have a better handle on the FACTS than you do.

Rich