Ugly, bland and over priced.

[RandyW]

I'm 56, I was there when the first GTO's came out, couldn't tell it from a LeMans until they hit the gas. My brother had a '64 and a '66 new. They were great cars 40 years ago, the newer GTO is a great car now and much better balanced package. I'd love to have a '70 Judge for the car shows, but I'd hate to think I had to drive it every day!!
As for the Tundra engine, since when is 380 something horsepower special? I hope your cams don't break like 31% of the first run units did! So many broken cams here that the local Toyota service lot looks like a Tundra convention! LOL

[87LC2]

Best thing that can be said about the old GTO's is....they look good.

That's it!

Handling...they suck!..........."Monaro" wins!
Braking...they suck!............."Monaro" wins!
Drive-ability...they suck!......."Monaro" wins!
Reliability...they suck!..........."Monaro" wins!
Fuel economy...they suck!....."Monaro" wins!
Comfort...they suck!............."Monaro" wins!
Safety...they suck!..............."Monaro" wins!
Aerodynamics...they suck!....."Monaro" wins!
Top speed...they suck!........."Monaro" wins!
Acceleration...they suck!......"Monaro" wins!

This is all stock for stock........"Monaro" wins!
Old goat...

Spend another $100,000 in modifications and an old GTO might be able to hang with a new GTO.



BTW don't you have some rust you need to take care of?

[Dragncar]

Like I said,if you dont get it you never will.I dont care if the old guy Wrangers writes what he did on that car,means nothing to me.He wants one more time in the sun,good for him.It was Deloreans baby.If it was not a issue(being a real GTO) there would be no need to write it.It would just be a real GTO in most true Pontiac types eyes and its not.
The new gto is a chevy in Pontiac clothing.It was chevy thet kept Pontiac down it the 60s because they were afraid of what Pontiac wanted to do with thier engines and cars like the Banshee(sold to Opal,became the Opal GT because Chevy would not allow another car to compete with the Corrvette).The Banshee was to have a RAV 428 with 2 fours.Do you think Chevy was going to allow that.Chevy stopped the RAV program,it was set to go into production.Would not allow the 2 valve and 3 valve OHC 428s.
The OHC sixs were all that came from that program.That head development was to go on 428s.
The 10-1 SD 455s were stopped in 1970,that engine became the 73-74 SD 455,the last muscle car.Pontiac began the muscle car era in 64 by pissing Chevy off with a 389 in a mid sized car and ended it with the 74 SD 455,leftovers of the engine they realy wanted to build in 70.But it would have ate the LS6 Chevelles alive and now way was chevy going to allow that.
And they sure as hell were not going to let the 427 SOHC Pontiac HEMI ever see development,or the light of day.I bet that engine kept some chevy people at GM up late at night.And the 427 number just might have been picked for a reason.
Pontiacs have always had to fight up hill,fight the good fight,start something new,go against the grain,be differant.
They made chevy very mad,dropping the 64 GTO on them,and Pontiac paid a price all through the 60s for it.And we do to this day,in not having all the engines we should have had.
The new gto is the ultimate in selling out,caving in,being one of them instead of trying to beat them even though they are holding you down.
BTW,I am only 43,I was a baby when all the real GTOs were new.But I remember diving around in my parents convertable Catalina.Pontiacs stay in your blood.The new gto does not have the same bloodlines as the real ones. No Pontiac soul.
And you can bet your a$$ they care,just the look on thier face says a lot when you dont get all bright eyed when they bring thier car up to you at the strip.
And when a new/real GTO or Pontiac shows up at the strip for the first time and the first thing I do is look under the car the owners know exactly what I am doing and if it has a Pontiac in it we have something in common right away.
And its ugly,no character.
Oh and that Tundra engine,its not one of the small V8s of the first Tundras.It a Lexus big car engine.It has low rpm small cams in it and the rev limmiter kicks in a 5500.Massive potential,when I went out to buy a truck I was set on buying a Chevy or Dodge.I drove everthing out there and the build quality,fit finnish,power of the Tundra was far beyond anything else I drove,and a better price.Better,tighter,the US auto companys have some catching up to do.At least it was made in Texas. The salesman told me driving a Tundra was a "experience" and I thought sure.It was,drove it,had to have it.
Put that engine with cams to make power and let it rev to 7500 in a car and you would have a rockett.
Sooooo,new gtos are not real GTOs,they are Moneros with Chevy engines.

[GTO JUDGE]

Originally Posted by Dragncar

I am only 43,I was a baby when all the real GTOs were new.

Well, that explains it.

What is a "Monero?"

[RandyW]

The broken cams are in the new Tundras, not the old ones.
As for not getting it, I don't think it's us.

[Dan_e]

Originally Posted by Dragncar

Sooooo,new gtos are not real GTOs,they are Moneros with Chevy engines.

Funny, mine has a Pontiac dart on the front, bought it new from a Pontiac dealer. It wears the GTO emblem proudly.

Just because you dont agree sir dont mean squat. Your hate against it dont change a thing. Mine is a 04 GTO, fair and square.

Vroom.

[Dragncar]

You know what a Monero is GTO JUDGE.The GM car from Austrailia the one the GTO name and badges were slapped on,the new chevy engine was slapped in and called the 04 gto.
Trying to make a buck on the history,legacy of the real Pontiac GTOs with this small,ugly half worn out bar of soap looking car. It made my stomach turn when I first heard about it.
And Dan e, the "dart" you speak of is a arrow head.You know,a indian arrow head.If you were a real Pontiac person you would know that. The Pontiac Indians of the Great Lakes area shot arrows,doubt the threw darts.
Most of the people driving new gtos dont know what it is to be a real GTO or Pontiac person.I tied to tell a few owners face to face and thier eyes glaze over.They have no idea what I am talking about,or care.Thus you have the vast majority of new gto owners.
So go ahead,drive them around with pride and think you are driving a real GTO.

[RandyW]

I owned both '65 and '66 GTO convertibles in the seventies and eighties. I'm mostly a Firebird guy, but the late GTO is a very nice car and every bit the same recipe as the old one only much more advanced. I guess by your thinking the Firebirds and Trans Ams after '81 are also not Pontiacs or real.

[GTO JUDGE]

I don't have a Monero. http://www.moneromotor.com.tr/giris.htm

I have a GTO.

You know, an Omologato. In the early years it was known as a Tempest, or Lemans but you were too young to remember them you say, you only heard of them... Delorean put a a big block in it, it was then called a GTO. The "old guy" Wangers marketed it and ran with it... you know...Omologato; Race car made street legal. Recognized by Pontiac Historical Society. Reborn in 2004 because Wangers wanted one more time in the sun. That GTO.

The same GTO heritage living on now, with the same GTO name that really pi$$ed off the Tempest, and Lemans owners way back when you were too young to remember. How dare Pontiac slap some GTO badges on a Tempest, or Lemans. When a Lemans owner saw a car like his with a GTO badge on it they got into an but that was before your time.

What kind of a mini van do you drive?

[87LC2]

This sounds like a flat head guy crying about the 1955 v8 with those new fangled valves in the head.

Besides, the 1970 Buick GS Stage I was the top dog back "in the day". Proven, faster than even the 426 hemi.

I stopped visiting this site because of drivel like this.


You must be secretly in love with the new GTO's, otherwise why would you even bother to come in here. You seem to hate this car so much, did you get spanked by an '04 Ls1?

The opposite of love is not hate, it's apathy.

I don't go to mustang forums and spew incoherent non-sense, I ignore them.


You sound like a school kid teasing the freckled face girl in front you in class.



The Pontiac engine died because it couldn't keep up with the modern world.

[RandyW]

I agree with all but this one; The Pontiac engine died because GM wanted a much smaller pool of drivetrains because it would be cheaper. Basically Pontiac wasn't allowed to keep up.

[87LC2]

Mechanical evolution.

[RandyW]

More or less.

[Dan_e]

Originally Posted by Dragncar

You know what a Monero is GTO JUDGE.The GM car from Austrailia the one the GTO name and badges were slapped on,the new chevy engine was slapped in and called the 04 gto.
Trying to make a buck on the history,legacy of the real Pontiac GTOs with this small,ugly half worn out bar of soap looking car. It made my stomach turn when I first heard about it.
And Dan e, the "dart" you speak of is a arrow head.You know,a indian arrow head.If you were a real Pontiac person you would know that. The Pontiac Indians of the Great Lakes area shot arrows,doubt the threw darts.
Most of the people driving new gtos dont know what it is to be a real GTO or Pontiac person.I tied to tell a few owners face to face and thier eyes glaze over.They have no idea what I am talking about,or care.Thus you have the vast majority of new gto owners.
So go ahead,drive them around with pride and think you are driving a real GTO.

Thanks, but you sir are sounding like a spoiled baby who cant have his own way. All your pissing and moaning dont change a thing. I will go out and drive my GTO, you should do the same.

[pont3]

Originally Posted by Dragncar

You know what a Monero is GTO JUDGE.The GM car from Austrailia the one the GTO name and badges were slapped on,the new chevy engine was slapped in and called the 04 gto.
Trying to make a buck on the history,legacy of the real Pontiac GTOs with this small,ugly half worn out bar of soap looking car. It made my stomach turn when I first heard about it.
And Dan e, the "dart" you speak of is a arrow head.You know,a indian arrow head.If you were a real Pontiac person you would know that. The Pontiac Indians of the Great Lakes area shot arrows,doubt the threw darts.
Most of the people driving new gtos dont know what it is to be a real GTO or Pontiac person.I tied to tell a few owners face to face and thier eyes glaze over.They have no idea what I am talking about,or care.Thus you have the vast majority of new gto owners.
So go ahead,drive them around with pride and think you are driving a real GTO.

I wasn't going to respond to anymore of your idiotic drivel, but seriously, do you think we are driving around in "fake" cars? When the name on my car is Pontiac GTO, the name on the title is Pontiac GTO, when GM introduced this car as Pontiac GTO, should we have told GM, the company who decided what car would be the first to be called GTO, that they were mistaken?

You are, indeed, entitled to your opinion, however, some of us are a little older than you and have experienced far more of the Pontiac world than you have. To continually force your "opinion" upon those of us who have accepted the NEW GTO is totally disrespectful. You should probably just stay away from this forum as I doubt anyone here will agree with you. The "smart" people who share your opinion ceased their posting here some time ago.

Everybody who owns a '04-'06 GTO is well aware where it was built, the rationale behind its existence, and the fact that it does not contain a traditional Pontiac V8. Apparently, it's you who simply don't know the whole story. Even though the car has been a source of constant whining for you, it has made scores of people very happy.

BTW, have you checked out the PONTIAC G8? It's a great car for four door performance shoppers. AND, it doesn't tarnish the name of any PAST Pontiacs. Sorry, it still doesn't have a PONTIAC specific engine, but it performs phenominally.

[Dick Boneske]

Wow, Dragncar is really out there on this thread!! Like many of you, I've owned several '64-'74 GTO's. Three '64's, a '69, and a '70. They were all nice cars. Then, in '04, I drove a new GTO and quickly decided this car is indeed built in the spirit of our old GTO's. It is great on handling, braking, and power. It's comfortable with great bucket seats, A/C, and a great stereo.
IT's been nearly 30 years since the last Pontiac V8 and the Chev engine in the new GTO is VASTLY better than our old engines.

[Dragncar]

Yeah,the sbc Pontiacs of the 80s were not real Pontiacs,true as can be.
The heart of any car is the engine.
No problem with the G8.
And no everyone who has bought a new GTO is not aware that they are not real GTOs.
Lots of those people.
If even Pontiac (PMD) did not understand it was not a issue,not haveing a real Pontiac engine.Why did they have the Butlers do a clean F.I. install of a real Pontiac V8 in a mid 80s Firebird to keep,show off.Sort of like what could have been,should have been had the decision not been made for to pull the plug on the Pontiac V8.

[robscar]

He's from Humbolt County. You know what he's been smokin!

[Dan_e]

Originally Posted by Dragncar

Yeah,the sbc Pontiacs of the 80s were not real Pontiacs,true as can be.
The heart of any car is the engine.
No problem with the G8.
And no everyone who has bought a new GTO is not aware that they are not real GTOs.
Lots of those people.
If even Pontiac (PMD) did not understand it was not a issue,not haveing a real Pontiac engine.Why did they have the Butlers do a clean F.I. install of a real Pontiac V8 in a mid 80s Firebird to keep,show off.Sort of like what could have been,should have been had the decision not been made for to pull the plug on the Pontiac V8.

04-6 GTOs are real GTOs, but you are not a REAL GTO owner.

[87LC2]

Originally Posted by Dragncar

And no everyone who has bought a GTO is not aware that they are not real GTOs.
Lots of us.

Yea, could you imagine putting a real GTO engine from a Ferrari in a POS 1964 Tempest.

The true GTO owners were upset that an American car company stuck the revered GTO name on a box of a car that couldn't go around a turn without slowing to school crossing speeds.

In reality, the '64-'74 GTO's were an embarrassment to the GTO name plate. The new, improved, '04-'06 GTO's are closer to the original intent of the name, able to perform rather than just a nameplate stuck on a GM "A" body.

As far as looks go out of the early GM GTO's, only the '65, '68 and '69 had attractive lines, the '66-'67 got real fat in the ass. The 1970-'72 were ugly and we won't even mention the GTova of '74.

The old GTO's today are like the Model T in the 1960's, nothing more than a 40 year old museum piece to reminisce over, too delicate to really use in the modern world.




Which color pill did you take before you went down the rabbit hole?