#21  
Old 01-19-2023, 09:57 PM
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unruhjonny unruhjonny is offline
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I would expect that someone like OPH would know;
the fact that him and Dennis both suggested that HF wheels are the originals, had me scratching my head.

GM was known for replacing one part with another, and my post was me thinking out loud, that maybe XE was the replacement (but it may have also had an earlier application).

I only have 67-76 Firebird, 77-81 Pontiac, 85-91 Grand Am, and 85-91 (Oldsmobile) Calais master parts catalogs - so I cannot reference any pre-1977 Pontiac parts which is not listed in the Firebird MPC.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shiny View Post
Someone will know !!!

What's ".50 offset" ??

Your reference describes "primed" XE wheels. I guess that makes sense for replacements but suggests any XE wheel has non-factory paint?
that's the wheel’s offset;

https://www.tyresizecalculator.com/wheels/wheel-offset

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1970 Formula 400
Carousel Red paint on Black standard interior
A no-engine, no-transmission, no-wheel option car.
Quite likely one of few '70 Muncie three speed Formula 400's left.


1991 Grand Am: 14.4 @ 93.7mph (DA corrected) (retired DD, stock appearing)
2009 Cobalt SS: 13.9 @ 103mph (current DD; makes something north of 300hp & 350ft/lbs)
1 Corinthians 2:12-14 / Ephesians 2: 8-9 / Luke 23: 39-43 / 2 Timothy 3:1-5;12
  #22  
Old 01-19-2023, 10:03 PM
SD455DJ SD455DJ is offline
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Jonny, I'm going to double check the wheel codes on the Lemans & Tempest this weekend to make sure what code they are...I know the '69 Custom S is HF. Don't take my word as gospel...lol!

Dennis

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  #23  
Old 01-19-2023, 10:18 PM
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I have a '70 build sheet for a 06-01 build with XE listed. My 02-06 had XE's. HF may have used late in the '70 build as HF was the code for '71s.

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Old 01-19-2023, 10:26 PM
'ol Pinion head 'ol Pinion head is offline
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Have had quite a few XE coded steel wheels, '69 production usage dates, early '70 to late Jan '70 usage wheels. Were they manufactured & installed later in production on mid '70 models, HFR has just sounded off. I will ck & get some feedback from two local '70 GTO customers who have March & April '70 built steel wheel cars w original trunk spares. One is original owner to his car, bought it new. I've seen his spare & it's def original.

HF coded 14x6's definitely made it onto numerous '70 V8 Tempest, LeMans, & GTO's, began chasing singles & pairs of HF's before picking up a date matching set to run on my T-37 Coupe.

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  #25  
Old 01-19-2023, 10:33 PM
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From Il & Parts Catalog:
(not sure how accurate this is, but is older manual)
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  #26  
Old 01-19-2023, 11:04 PM
'ol Pinion head 'ol Pinion head is offline
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Bad info John. Many superseded code wheels.

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  #27  
Old 01-20-2023, 05:31 PM
goatboy1970 goatboy1970 is offline
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I contacted the 1970 GTO tech expert for the GTOAA. He confirmed that the correct steel wheel code for 70 is XE.

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1970 GTO I Pepper Green, YS Code, numbers matching, PHS documented
  #28  
Old 01-20-2023, 05:37 PM
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My experience from big car shows doesn't lend to a post like that (#27) as the end-all.

It reads to me as though there may have been two codes used depending on build date;
As an example all the 1969 Camaro guys get hot & bothered over XT wheels, meanwhile that wasn't the only wheel used - just the more common 14x7" steel wheel code for that model/year.

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1970 Formula 400
Carousel Red paint on Black standard interior
A no-engine, no-transmission, no-wheel option car.
Quite likely one of few '70 Muncie three speed Formula 400's left.


1991 Grand Am: 14.4 @ 93.7mph (DA corrected) (retired DD, stock appearing)
2009 Cobalt SS: 13.9 @ 103mph (current DD; makes something north of 300hp & 350ft/lbs)
1 Corinthians 2:12-14 / Ephesians 2: 8-9 / Luke 23: 39-43 / 2 Timothy 3:1-5;12
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  #29  
Old 01-20-2023, 05:47 PM
goatboy1970 goatboy1970 is offline
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That makes plenty of sense, especially given the strike. I think if I already had HF wheels with good date codes, I wouldn't lose any sleep over them. Since I need a set, I'm gonna chase the XEs for a while.

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1970 GTO I Pepper Green, YS Code, numbers matching, PHS documented
  #30  
Old 01-20-2023, 05:49 PM
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Is there no factory documentation for these wheel codes?

I can neither confirm nor deny my XEs are original but the date code on my 70 LeMans' tag is 09C, Pontiac plant.

  #31  
Old 01-20-2023, 09:05 PM
SD455DJ SD455DJ is offline
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My '70 Tempest is dated 9E on the trim tag, so a real early production car too. The Lemans is dated 03B, so a late mid-year car. I'll be checking the codes and dates tomorrow. I have no idea if they are the original "born-with" wheels, or not, but we'll soon see.

Dennis

  #32  
Old 01-21-2023, 09:19 AM
'ol Pinion head 'ol Pinion head is offline
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Heres some dates, am sure have more HF's & poss some more XEs. Have a considerable amount of mounted steel wheels to break down.

K-1-0 6 @ 14 HF

K-1-0 9? @ 18 HF (the 9 is upside down)

the latter set! have an upside down 9 in the month designation, I bought that set through GTO JOHN (RIP) before "the auction". These are the set I'm restoring the finish for the T-37 Engr car & will be running Pontiac-Pontiac standard hubcaps. The T was ordered out with heavy 14x7 HC's & will be running those for show only.

the pair of 6/14/70's I personally removed from the front of a late 70 model LeMans.

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  #33  
Old 01-21-2023, 11:34 AM
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is there a compiled assembly manual for a Tempest/Lemans/GTO?
if so, the wheel/tire pages might shed some light on the subject.

I would think that June 1970 stamped wheels would normally be for 1971 model year cars.

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1970 Formula 400
Carousel Red paint on Black standard interior
A no-engine, no-transmission, no-wheel option car.
Quite likely one of few '70 Muncie three speed Formula 400's left.


1991 Grand Am: 14.4 @ 93.7mph (DA corrected) (retired DD, stock appearing)
2009 Cobalt SS: 13.9 @ 103mph (current DD; makes something north of 300hp & 350ft/lbs)
1 Corinthians 2:12-14 / Ephesians 2: 8-9 / Luke 23: 39-43 / 2 Timothy 3:1-5;12
  #34  
Old 01-22-2023, 11:03 AM
SD455DJ SD455DJ is offline
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I could only access the original wheels from the 09E Baltimore built Tempest and all 5 are 8/2/69, or possibly 8/12/69 (the '1' in the 12 is very faint), and XE coded. I was mistaken in my earlier post. Now I'm really curious to see what came on the 03B Fremont, CA built Lemans.

Dennis
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  #35  
Old 01-22-2023, 11:07 AM
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unruhjonny unruhjonny is offline
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ok then, based on what I am reading now, early 70’s should probably be XE, while late should be HF.

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1970 Formula 400
Carousel Red paint on Black standard interior
A no-engine, no-transmission, no-wheel option car.
Quite likely one of few '70 Muncie three speed Formula 400's left.


1991 Grand Am: 14.4 @ 93.7mph (DA corrected) (retired DD, stock appearing)
2009 Cobalt SS: 13.9 @ 103mph (current DD; makes something north of 300hp & 350ft/lbs)
1 Corinthians 2:12-14 / Ephesians 2: 8-9 / Luke 23: 39-43 / 2 Timothy 3:1-5;12
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  #36  
Old 01-22-2023, 04:45 PM
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CraigGT37 CraigGT37 is offline
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With all the dates thrown out there for the application of wheels. How far in advance of a cars production would the wheels be dated? My GT-37's production date is early sept 70 (appears pre-strike) and the build sheet shows JT for the code.

  #37  
Old 01-22-2023, 06:29 PM
'ol Pinion head 'ol Pinion head is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CraigGT37 View Post
With all the dates thrown out there for the application of wheels. How far in advance of a cars production would the wheels be dated? My GT-37's production date is early sept 70 (appears pre-strike) and the build sheet shows JT for the code.
On a 09A or even early 09B body build GT-37, that was actually built before the big strike, I'd expect a JT coded wheel most likely dated in the 8/13/70 range. 8/13/70 is a valid date, know of a set that was sold in the last year by a longtime collector & PY member.

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  #38  
Old 01-22-2023, 10:28 PM
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Thanks Roger. It is an 09A build.

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