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Old 10-26-2022, 03:23 PM
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RocktimusPryme RocktimusPryme is offline
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Default Terminator X problem solved

I dont really have a question I just wanted to share an experience that could maybe help someone else.

I installed a Terminator X from EFISystemsPros last October. I went with the Terminator over the Sniper because I didnt want to deal with any potential RFI issues. The install was fairly easy if time consuming. I added a couple of extras like OP and FP sensors so I could see those numbers on my Heads up Display and get rid of other gauges.

I have had a consistent issue since installing though. Every once in a while, especially decelerating to go through turns I would get a huge lean spike so that the car would almost shut off. Once it happened at the track when I lost traction and had to pedal the car. I thought I might detonate the pistons out of it. Kinda scared me straight and set me to trying to find the problem.

I reached out to the tech support at EFISystemsPros (Highly recommended BTW over buying from anyone else) Turns out we kinda had a mystery on our hands. We went through the process of added and subtracing fuel in certain spots. It was hard to test because the events were a bit random. A few times I thought I had it fixed only to find I didnt when I put more miles on the car.

Put in a new 4150 gasket. Checked all my vacuum lines. Even put in new header and collector gaskets. No love. This was all over a period of months as I tried to eliminate one potential fail point at a time.

Finally, I pressurized my exhaust system with my shop vac. It was there with the help of some soapy water that I found the tinniest baby pinhole in the weld for my O2 bung up at the top. I put some orange RTV over it and havent had the issue since.

Moral of the story, is that similar to how electrical problems in old vehicles tend to be bad grounds. If you have an issue with your Terminator that has an odd problem, search high and low for vacuum leaks because that is probably the issue.

Also, before you buy, ask yourself how good at cars you actually are. I think there is a perception that the entry level FI units are the easy button for car guys who arent mechanics. I think thats an bad assumption. A carb will run decently even if its not set up right. It might be rich or lean, or maybe have small vacuum leak. But it will run, and the owner probably thinks its perfect even if its not.

That FI unit on the other hand will let you know if there is an issue. If you dont have some reasonable level of troubleshooting know how, you might be one of the people who badmouth the units on facebook. They arent junk, they do work but I dont think they necessarily make things easier.

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Old 10-26-2022, 05:12 PM
rohrt rohrt is offline
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Wow that would have been tough to find even for the most seasoned mechanic. Great job.

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Old 10-26-2022, 05:31 PM
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Good job finding the leak. But this falls under the fundamentals of using EFI with O2 sensor feedback. No leaks from the exhaust flange to at least 18" past the sensor location.

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Old 10-26-2022, 06:26 PM
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Thanks for sharing!

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Old 10-26-2022, 07:37 PM
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Originally Posted by Scott65 View Post
Good job finding the leak. But this falls under the fundamentals of using EFI with O2 sensor feedback. No leaks from the exhaust flange to at least 18" past the sensor location.
Oh no doubt but that’s more or less what my main point was. I know I said vacuum but I meant to type vacuum/exhaust. If you have an issue that isn’t explainable otherwise you likely have one of those two leaks (RFI Aside) You have something that is giving the system a false parameter. So you really have to pull out all the stops to make sure you don’t have one.

My case proves that it only takes a little one if it’s in the right place. Initially I thought I probably had a vacuum leak. When I eliminated all of those potential spots the collector gaskets were the first thing I changed. Figuring those to be the culprit. Being the closest to the sensor.

Secondary point is I see people ALL THE TIME saying that the systems are junk, that they have three friends who took them off to put carbs back on. They aren’t junk. You just have to be willing to track down any of those false parameters.

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  #6  
Old 10-27-2022, 10:36 AM
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Chris at EFI System Pro is awesome to deal with. I've recommended him several times in this forum to those thinking of going EFI. Great prices and even better customer service.

Those damn leaks bite you lol.

I know what you're saying, and a big part of the problem is how these systems are marketed by Holley, making it sound easy and cheap. It's neither. If your car has even the slightest running issue that you never knew was there, it will become 10 fold with an EFI system on it.
I've seen some pretty crappy installs too which just compounds the problem, and EFI almost always seems to get blamed.

Glad you got that figured out.

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Old 10-29-2022, 07:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RocktimusPryme View Post
Also, before you buy, ask yourself how good at cars you actually are. I think there is a perception that the entry level FI units are the easy button for car guys who arent mechanics. I think thats an bad assumption. A carb will run decently even if its not set up right. It might be rich or lean, or maybe have small vacuum leak. But it will run, and the owner probably thinks its perfect even if its not.
.
This is some wise advice here! This should be heavily considered before people make the EFI plunge. Many people say it just a plug and play, and for many it probably is, but with the high HP engines with big cams it can be tricky to get it perfect.

I went from a well running Qjet and separate trans controller (4l80e) to the 4150 Stealth Terminator because of the integrated trans controller and ignition. I have had my fair share of struggles.

You found the key to finding exhaust leaks with the vacuum trick. I did that and found my manifold gaskets were shot. Crazy because I NEVER heard an exhaust leak. Swapped them out and the lean shenanigans almost stopped. Not sure why Holley doesn’t put this in their instructions.

I still had a random lean issue and high idle when I would come to a stop. So I did some research and switched from my traditional PCV to a fixed port PCV and that really took care of all my lien issues. Again not sure why Holley doesn’t recommend this in their instructions.

The last thing was swapped to the progressive linkage and have the secondaries opening up at 30% throttle position. This made the around town driving much more pleasant.

After all that was fixed up the car was running really good, but not 100%. So I ended up taking it to a local tuner and he put it on his chassis Dyno to fine tune the Fuel curve and spark and it runs great now. But there was a steep learning curve for me and cost me some extra money to get it perfect. There were many times when I was considering going back to the carburetor set up.

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Old 10-29-2022, 07:39 PM
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Originally Posted by sjdiesel View Post

I went from a well running Qjet and separate trans controller (4l80e) to the 4150 Stealth Terminator because of the integrated trans controller and ignition. I have had my fair share of struggles.
Thats the other thing people need to ask themselves. Is this just a carb replacement, or are you going to take advantage of the extras that these systems provide. If its just a carb replacement I dont think they are worth it. You really need to be using the computer timing, fan controller, transmission controllers etc for it to really be worth the money.

Currently Im not using the timing stuff but thats coming. Honestly for me having a heads up display has been worth it, but everyone wont feel that way. I had that little three gauge pod below the dash that most old hot rods have. Now its up in my vision where I can actually see it.

I never considered going back. I was always confident in my troubleshooting ability to be able to figure it out. That said, I did have a little buyers remorse after. I kinda bought it on a whim, and it didnt really add much initially to be worth the cost.

I was actually driving it today and the display or maybe the whole system started resetting several times while driving. I had the battery disconnected earlier so Im hoping I just didnt have the terminals on good. I have it disconnected and charging now. Ill put some miles on it tomorrow and see whats up.

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  #9  
Old 10-29-2022, 07:56 PM
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I have it just for the fueling, and the fact that it datalogs, and I can use the handheld as a replacement for gauges.

All that was worth it to me. I use a separate trans controller, and I don't use ignition control, and don't have electric fans either, and I'm fine with that.

Mainly I wanted fuel control to see how it acts with the severe elevation changes we deal with. Helped tremendously at the track which is a 5000 foot elevation drop. Very easy to datalog, see where the correction percent was and make a quick change in the fuel map and get right back in the staging lanes. Didn't even open the hood.

The datalogs are also nice to monitor all the other vitals like fuel pressure, oil pressure, temp, throttle position and rpm shift points. It's a nice tool to have.

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Old 11-04-2022, 12:15 PM
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Agreed with the way these are marketed as simple systems. Not that it has anything to do with your situation but the market is not so simple.

We have people with 50 year old original wiring harnesses, gas tanks and fuel lines. 20 year old spark plug wires they got off of ebay. Rusty headers they got from Summit for $89 15 years ago that keep blowing out gaskets and a warped intake manifold they got off FB market place. They butt splice one of these systems onto their car, stuff the mountain of wires they don't need behind the engine and when the system doesn't work right, Holley, FiTech or whoever sucks and they put back on a carb that masks all of the crap.

I do wish these companies invested more in diagnostic codes or something so you could follow the crumb trail a bit better to find your problems but that will probably come out with the next generation of aftermarket FI system. There have been plenty of documented QC issues with the systems themselves as well. But for now, the marketing of these as simple 5 wire solutions to why your car runs bad to begin with is disingenuous in my view.

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Old 11-04-2022, 02:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Formula8 View Post
Agreed with the way these are marketed as simple systems. Not that it has anything to do with your situation but the market is not so simple.

We have people with 50 year old original wiring harnesses, gas tanks and fuel lines. 20 year old spark plug wires they got off of ebay. Rusty headers they got from Summit for $89 15 years ago that keep blowing out gaskets and a warped intake manifold they got off FB market place. They butt splice one of these systems onto their car, stuff the mountain of wires they don't need behind the engine and when the system doesn't work right, Holley, FiTech or whoever sucks and they put back on a carb that masks all of the crap.

I do wish these companies invested more in diagnostic codes or something so you could follow the crumb trail a bit better to find your problems but that will probably come out with the next generation of aftermarket FI system. There have been plenty of documented QC issues with the systems themselves as well. But for now, the marketing of these as simple 5 wire solutions to why your car runs bad to begin with is disingenuous in my view.
Exactly!

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