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PMDRACER · 12-20-2002, 03:39 PM

OK, I've had it. I need some ideas.
Every once in a long while - (up until last night, it's been 6 months since the last time) - I'll go to the car and try to start it. When I turn the key, I get nothing at the starter. Absolutely nothing. Never the same instance. Could have sat all night, all weekend, or I just parked, got out and came back.
The battery is fine. 12.5+ volts every time. Last night I left the dome light on all night just to see what will happen in the morning. The car started just fine with 12.2 volts at the battery. The neutral safety switch is fine. The ignition switch on the column is fine. I even replaced it the last time the car did this. The battery has been checked too many times, and I even replaced it once.
When the car does this, all I have to do is hook up my battery charger or get a jump start hooked up literally for 2 seconds, and the starter spins like new, and the motor fires. Sometimes if I just walk away for an hour it will fire later with no problems, and no need for a jump.
Like I said, it's an all or nothing problem. When it starts, the starter spins healthy, and the motor fires. When the problem surfaces, I get absolutely nothing except the dash lights dimming to tell me I've turned the key. All the other systems work fine though. The car just won't spin the starter.
It will probably be 3-6 months before it happens again, but it always happens at the most inopportune time.

I'm completely baffled.

TIGER EFI - Electronic Fuel Injection for the Traditional Pontiac Engine. bill@tigerefi.com

PMDRACER · 12-20-2002, 03:39 PM

OK, I've had it. I need some ideas.
Every once in a long while - (up until last night, it's been 6 months since the last time) - I'll go to the car and try to start it. When I turn the key, I get nothing at the starter. Absolutely nothing. Never the same instance. Could have sat all night, all weekend, or I just parked, got out and came back.
The battery is fine. 12.5+ volts every time. Last night I left the dome light on all night just to see what will happen in the morning. The car started just fine with 12.2 volts at the battery. The neutral safety switch is fine. The ignition switch on the column is fine. I even replaced it the last time the car did this. The battery has been checked too many times, and I even replaced it once.
When the car does this, all I have to do is hook up my battery charger or get a jump start hooked up literally for 2 seconds, and the starter spins like new, and the motor fires. Sometimes if I just walk away for an hour it will fire later with no problems, and no need for a jump.
Like I said, it's an all or nothing problem. When it starts, the starter spins healthy, and the motor fires. When the problem surfaces, I get absolutely nothing except the dash lights dimming to tell me I've turned the key. All the other systems work fine though. The car just won't spin the starter.
It will probably be 3-6 months before it happens again, but it always happens at the most inopportune time.

I'm completely baffled.

TIGER EFI - Electronic Fuel Injection for the Traditional Pontiac Engine. bill@tigerefi.com

68CONV400 · 12-20-2002, 03:49 PM

Is you battery ground cable tight and clean(where it bolts to the block)?I had the same symptoms on an Olds. I had and that's what it was.

Just an idea.

Charlie

PMDRACER · 12-20-2002, 03:53 PM

Yes. That was my first thought. Thanks.

TIGER EFI - Electronic Fuel Injection for the Traditional Pontiac Engine. bill@tigerefi.com

fast1970transam · 12-20-2002, 03:58 PM

i had kinda the same thing go on for me. i changed my alternator and now it dont happenanymore. Not sure if that was it, but its been working for me

**** breaks, then u buy the good stuff

61man · 12-20-2002, 05:10 PM

my first thought was a poor ground, not at the battery but at the other end of the wire. [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_cool.gif[/img] [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_cool.gif[/img] [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_cool.gif[/img]

http://kurtspontiac.homestead.com/Pre1964Pontiacs.html

sscherin · 12-20-2002, 05:12 PM

next time it does it break out the VOM and check the voltage from the switch..
I found my firebird sometimes only put out 9v there even though the battery was at full charge.

GURU: One who knows more jargon than you

Scott Schering
70 Firebird 455 12.34 @ 108.2
Http://www.pontiacs.org

saxit2me2 · 12-20-2002, 06:33 PM

I had problems like that and I purchased a new Starter Switch. I opened the old one and saw most of the contacts were burned or a bit melted like a hot spark was coming through it and arching. Well after that I have not had much trouble unless I leave the lights all day [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif[/img]

Never Enough Power · 12-20-2002, 06:41 PM

I have to agree on the loss of a connection at one of the terminals, start with Neg at the frame and then the pos at starter. If you have two people at the time have one person turn key, second person can give one cable at a time the wiggle test, ( keep hands clear of pulleys and fan!) Also , if you are using the spring style cable ends check for a loose connection at the battery or a dirty connection at one of the posts/cable ends.

tomnt · 12-20-2002, 07:57 PM

Possible connection inside starter selenoid.

68CONV400 · 12-20-2002, 08:30 PM

Possible sticking bendix in the starter? I've seen that happen before too.

Just another idea.

Charlie

68CONV400 · 12-20-2002, 08:39 PM

I've also seen wires break inside the insulation,but that is normally on things here at work (ie

lant) that vibrates or moves ALOT,and that will cause erratic loss of voltage.

Set your VOM to Ohms and connect at both ends of each cable.It should read close to .2 (the same reading you get when you touch the leads together on the meter).Then wiggle the cable around and see if your reading changes.

Charlie

Cardo · 12-21-2002, 04:27 AM

Make sure the starter itself is tight, that is the ground for the starter. My brother chased that one on a Mustang for a while!

"Not knowing, I hesitate to respond."

cstevens · 12-21-2002, 09:39 PM

I had the same problem with my 71. It was the the starter switch mounted under the dash on the column. I tried to clean the contacts and a couple weeks later happened again, Of course in the middle of 4way stop after I stalled it. I put in a push button starter switch and never had a problem again. Also as I side bonus when its in a bad mood and wont turn over properly I can crank it over good before I hit the key and vroom.

428GTO70 · 12-21-2002, 11:21 PM

I had that happen on and off in my 85 Cutlass a few times. I would be driving along and I try to restart and absolutely nothing. Then try later and no prob. For me it was the starter, I switched it out and no problems. I think the solonoid was faulty and binding up at times.

GR-RRR!

spamburger17 · 12-21-2002, 11:48 PM

I had the same problem before, but it wasnt a wire run directly to the ignition switch, theyre was a brown wire with a female plug (on my 68 Tempest) under the dash that didnt have a connector, but a loose wire thread into it causing a loose connection and no power to the starter?? Something could be causing the same effect. It was too far up so i couldnt really tell where the wire ran too. If i remember ill check tomorrow and see if i can find something.

Tim Corcoran · 12-22-2002, 01:38 PM

I would say either a loose connection some where, or the power wire that applies power to the starter solenoid with the key in the crank position, or the actual starter solenoid.

Tim C

65 LeMans, 3700lb. all steel, full interior, D-ports and a flat tappet cam, 11.06@122

meanolegoat · 12-22-2002, 05:45 PM

nex time it does this grab a dvom and run a voltage drop test on the main power and ground cables, then narrow it down to the actual ckt. as in the above post a good resistance reading should be less than .2 of an ohm..of course by the time you get the meter out it'll crank just fine [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif[/img] "mean"

68CONV400 · 12-23-2002, 05:23 PM

I agree with the "Mean Ole Goat".One thing you could do without waiting for it to do it again is to use your VOM on Ohms,disconnect the battery,and trace through the starting circuit (a section at a time) and check for continuity. (0.2 Ohms) Cylcling the ignition switch on and off,wiggling wires,and checking ground connections.

If you don't have a wiring diagram it'll be more difficult but not impossible. Just start at the wiring on the starter and work your way back.

I'm sorry I don't have an easier answer,but that's the sure way to find the problem (unless it's a bad starter)

When you find the problem though,I'd like to hear what you found.

Thanks,

Charlie

PMDRACER · 12-23-2002, 09:53 PM

Thanks everybody for the input! I'll (hopefully) be changing motors soon. So unless it happens again before that time, I'll be going through the whole underhood wiring harness when the motor is out. Hopefully I'll find something. It sure will be easier to check then!
Definitely will report what I find.

TIGER EFI - Electronic Fuel Injection for the Traditional Pontiac Engine. bill@tigerefi.com

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