[Old Goat 67]

Rick,
I'm sorry, I can't remember that.

Charles

[Nu2pontiac]

Charles,
I pulled my waterpump today and have included pictures. I have a cast impeller and the vanes are 5/8" high! One has a slight notch on the top edge and drops down to 9/16" for most of the vane. My gap between divider plate and impeller vanes is 3/32" without the gasket. I beat them down about 2 years ago and couldn't remember how far! Didn't drive the car enough to really test the heating since I added a tri-power since and had many difficulties with it.
I attached two pictures - note that the impeller itself is not round. If you look at the numbers on the impeller(4852) you can see that the gap on the outer edge of the impeller closest to the numbers is closer to the indentation in the casting than the impeller is on the side opposite the number on the impeller. Does this matter?
Finally, has anyone bought the more expensive cardone New Pump Part #55-11137 as it appears the remanufactured pumps have differing impellers while the New Pump must have one kind of impeller. See http://www.cardone.com/English/club/...RTNUM=55-11137
I am wondering if the New pump has a cast impeller. I did send an email to Cardone but thought someone here may have bought one. Their picture of the New pump shows a cast impeller but so does their remanufactured pump - Part #58-299 - although that picture says "Product appearance and finish may vary . . . . " See http://www.cardone.com/English/club/...PARTNUM=58-299
Thanks, Rick
P.S. Pictures are not attaching as it says they must be resized.

[Nu2pontiac]

Here's the picture of my impeller. See yesterday's post from Nu2pontiac for questions related to the picture, particularly the impeller being out-of-round.
Dave, got your email about photobucket and may use that method in the future. For now I just cropped this picture to make it fit the size limitation, although on my computer when I clicked it on PY forums I have a split picture so it is REALLY out-of-round! Also Cardone told me all their pumps are cast impeller and the vanes are all .820 high. Doesn't sound like what people have been experiencing.
Rick

[Old Goat 67]

Rick,
From what I can see there, I don't believe yours to be that much different than most.
Probably many out there like that, maybe even mine. Notice that the vane extends past the hub at top of photo, effectively balancing the area.
Can you get a side shot of it, showing plate clearance, like I did of mine on first page of this post?

Charles

[Nu2pontiac]

Good observation on the length of the one vane! Here's picture with gasket laying in place. Distance is between .109375 & .125 so looks like a have a little ways to go.
Rick

[Old Goat 67]

Gasket in place?

Gasket should only be between pump body and timing cover.

Charles

[Nu2pontiac]

Yes it is just as your diagram, but because of the lip on the divider plate it rests on the edge of the gasket. I am supposing this is why many of the posts speak about taking the gasket into account when bending the inner housing.
Rick

[Old Goat 67]

OK, my bad.
Been too long.

[East]

I really want to put the Griffin back in to verify that it did run cooler but it was over 110 degrees today and I figured that it is just hot and the Rodney Red is doing the job. If it does run cooler, even with the leak, I'm going to kick myself in the a$$ for not replacing it with the same model. The water pump modification didn't make it any better but it didn't make it any worse. The 1.25 inch tubes on the Griffin must have made a difference because I never thought twice about the temps during the past seven years.

[1967Tempest]

While I was fighting a freeze plug issue in the cylinder head I found some interesting things out.

1. The freeze plug that I removed was close to 1/2" in thickness.
2. The freeze plug that I put in was around 1/4" in thickness.

Water is moving so fast through the radiator now. I mean fast!! When I was filling it up there was a 2 inch gap in coolant from the top of the rad to coolant level. I was holding the engine at 2K rpms and the coolant was bouncing off the side tank and coming out of the top!!!


Food for thought. Might make a difference if someone is REALLY stuck.

Dave

[Norwood]

George, I beat on my divider with a rubber mallet toda and closed the gap as much as I could. Seems to be better, but time will tell.....Where do I send the $$$$$$?

[Norwood]

Originally Posted by Old Goat 67

Gasket in place?

Gasket should only be between pump body and timing cover.

Charles

Is that an early pump style? Never seen that before...

[Slick]

Put mine together for the first time in many years. Used an NOS 301 water pump. Aluminum, but with a cast impeller. The impeller blades were shorter than the standard Pontiac pump, but I figured to try it anyway.

Beat the divider plate with a rubber mallet to obtain ~0.045" clearance.

455, 9.5 compression, 4-row brass radiator, 19.5" factory flex fan.

Breaking in the motor, in the garage, 90+ degree day, did not exceed 160 degrees. Driving around, same day, same result, as cool as a cucumber.

Couldn't be happier. This really works.

Stuart

[george kujanski]

Norwood: my son is moving to Bartlett soon; we'll hook up and you can buy me some coffee.

George

[Norwood]

Will Do....

[Blackwood Goat]

Originally Posted by Slick

Put mine together for the first time in many years. Used an NOS 301 water pump. Aluminum, but with a cast impeller. The impeller blades were shorter than the standard Pontiac pump, but I figured to try it anyway.

Beat the divider plate with a rubber mallet to obtain ~0.045" clearance.

455, 9.5 compression, 4-row brass radiator, 19.5" factory flex fan.

Breaking in the motor, in the garage, 90+ degree day, did not exceed 160 degrees. Driving around, same day, same result, as cool as a cucumber.

Couldn't be happier. This really works.

Stuart

Stuart

What were your temps prior to repair?

[mikeb]

I just spent several hours reading this thread from front to back. I remember when it started years ago, but I never thought i'd be needing the info in it.

My daughter and I are restoring a 10th anniversary t/a. We rebuilt the 400 that came in it (not numbers matching, it's a 1975 engine). Got it running a few weeks ago. Engine is a mild 400 build up with good rods, trws, but stock cast iron 5c heads and a very mild comp cam.

Yep, it runs hot as all get out. Had to shut it down a couple of times during the cam break in.

I have one of those crappy flowkooler pumps on it (heck, I had it laying around and it was new so I used it). We did clearance the divider and maybe that helped a little bit. I also installed a new fan clutch which blew crap off of the top of the car for the first time so I know it's moving a ton of air. We also installed a 4 core radiator, and installed the proper 400 style fan shroud. It has a 180 degree thermostat which has been swapped out once.

Temp will work it's way up easily to 220, and it will stabilize at 240. I'm too chicken to run it there, so it gets shut off. I tried a spare oil/temp gauge with the same results.

Car has the proper a/c pulleys.

So the plan is (for this coming weekend) to replace the generic parts store temp sending unit with a ac delco unit, verify the temps being read with a meat thermometer stuck in the radiator, and if it really is running hot try to locate a water pump with a cast impeller. Other options include looking for engine assembly problems with a compression test.

Results to follow.

[lester]

mikeb
I have a 75 400 in my 79 t/a . use the snding unit in the motor for what year and motor that was in your car. so it works with the gage in the car. i run a 160 stat now to. i had the 190 . then 180. i was over 220 with them. put the 160 t-stat in and I'm at 175 at 65mph all day long and 165 in town. fyi never shut down the motor when your braking in a cam. mine was at 240 at 2 grand and I held the water hose on the rad to bring it down to 220 and let it run for a 1/2hr. changing the rpm every 5 min.

[1967Tempest]

It is way cool that your daughter is involved. Did you try the easy, and free stuff?? Making sure the lower hose isn't collapsing, upper hose has no air etc...


Dave

[Blackwood Goat]

Originally Posted by mikeb

I just spent several hours reading this thread from front to back. I remember when it started years ago, but I never thought i'd be needing the info in it.

My daughter and I are restoring a 10th anniversary t/a. We rebuilt the 400 that came in it (not numbers matching, it's a 1975 engine). Got it running a few weeks ago. Engine is a mild 400 build up with good rods, trws, but stock cast iron 5c heads and a very mild comp cam.

Yep, it runs hot as all get out. Had to shut it down a couple of times during the cam break in.

I have one of those crappy flowkooler pumps on it (heck, I had it laying around and it was new so I used it). We did clearance the divider and maybe that helped a little bit. I also installed a new fan clutch which blew crap off of the top of the car for the first time so I know it's moving a ton of air. We also installed a 4 core radiator, and installed the proper 400 style fan shroud. It has a 180 degree thermostat which has been swapped out once.

Temp will work it's way up easily to 220, and it will stabilize at 240. I'm too chicken to run it there, so it gets shut off. I tried a spare oil/temp gauge with the same results.

Car has the proper a/c pulleys.

So the plan is (for this coming weekend) to replace the generic parts store temp sending unit with a ac delco unit, verify the temps being read with a meat thermometer stuck in the radiator, and if it really is running hot try to locate a water pump with a cast impeller. Other options include looking for engine assembly problems with a compression test.

Results to follow.

Mike

My 400 ran 235 and clinmbing at idle or on the road. When I turned it off she would boil over. For whats it's worth I did the following: Back flushed the engine twice,added 50/50mixture with water wetter. Replaced both hose's and added a 160 stat. Have stock 11 bolt WP did the divider plate clearance. Added fan shroud. Replaced sparkplugs with AC43S. Vacuun Advanced cannister replaced (Faulty). Set timing at 6 degrees. I took it out last Sunday 91 degrees, hot and humid. Ran in driveway for 60 minutes stabilized at 200 degrees, 30 mile run on highway did not go over 198. Not exactly were I want to be, but much better than before. Good Luck Rich