#101  
Old 05-13-2022, 01:55 AM
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More Photos of Mikes car:
Mikes Reply:

The one time I took this car out, with the wide wheels and got to a restaurant, people could only LOOK at the fat wheels, they seem to be head over heels over them?

  #102  
Old 05-13-2022, 02:09 AM
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Mikes 1979 Pontiac TA with the Fat Tires and my car hauler getting painted Black, note the Tool box and upper tire Rack! Provisions for the compressor and Generator inside and the Elec. and air hose are in the frame for race use. The brakes are 4-wheel serge elec. Drum.
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  #103  
Old 05-13-2022, 02:18 AM
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Here is Mikes Trailer painter:

When I bought this Vehicle, it was only one inch off the ground in the front with these wheels, I thought how can I drive this on the road?

I ended up raising the front end by using spring rubber spacers under the front coil springs but that was not enough, due to the headers, so I use those metal spring deals THAT YOU TURN IN WITH A SOCKET WRENCH INBETWEEN THE COIL SPRINGS. I HAD TO SECURE THEM SO THEY DON'T SPIN USING TIE STRAPS. SEEM TO BE WORKING. Sorry the cap lock got hit.
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Last edited by TRADERMIKE 2012; 05-13-2022 at 02:28 AM.
  #104  
Old 05-13-2022, 09:21 AM
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Mikes Reply:

Thats your personal option, myself living in Florida I have to use AC in the Vehicles. The AC in my home is running 24-7. As a matter of fact, I have a Mobile home outside unit. Plus, the wall units in all the windows for back up and some run all the time. So, I don't put all the load on the Outside older unit. Living in Florida without AC would be like living in NY without heat!
It's really what part of the country you live in that makes that decision for me.

When I lived in Ohio, it was the humidity that was brutal, not so much the temperature. Same thing in Florida it's just worse. In those conditions I needed the AC. I couldn't be outside 10 minutes before I felt like I needed another shower. Miserable to drive the cars anywhere without AC. Couldn't go anywhere nice, you'd get out of the car and look like you just crawled out of a swimming pool.

Now living in Arizona, I agree with Tom. Out here, even though temps are well over 100 degrees in the summer, our humidity is usually 10-15% and our dew points in the single digits. So I don't feel like I need AC so much. In fact, our current classic cars don't have it and I drive them everywhere all summer long, doesn't really bother me. I can be outside all day, and with the light breezes we have, temps over 100, I hardly break a sweat. That's why so many people are attracted to the dry desert air out here. California where Tom is, is very similar.

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  #105  
Old 05-13-2022, 10:18 AM
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Originally Posted by Formulajones View Post
Now living in Arizona, I agree with Tom. Out here, even though temps are well over 100 degrees in the summer, our humidity is usually 10-15% and our dew points in the single digits. So I don't feel like I need AC so much. In fact, our current classic cars don't have it and I drive them everywhere all summer long, doesn't really bother me. I can be outside all day, and with the light breezes we have, temps over 100, I hardly break a sweat. That's why so many people are attracted to the dry desert air out here. California where Tom is, is very similar.
Unless it's a convertible; then driving it during the day is like using a hair dryer on your face while kneeling in front of your open oven.

My '67 is strictly a nighttime car from Memorial Day - Labor Day.

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  #106  
Old 05-13-2022, 10:35 AM
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With the convertables we had, I'd just keep the top up during the day and the windows down. By 5pm as the sun starts setting, the top comes down

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  #107  
Old 05-14-2022, 06:37 PM
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Originally Posted by TRADERMIKE 2012 View Post
Here is Mikes Trailer painter:

When I bought this Vehicle, it was only one inch off the ground in the front with these wheels, I thought how can I drive this on the road?

I ended up raising the front end by using spring rubber spacers under the front coil springs but that was not enough, due to the headers, so I use those metal spring deals THAT YOU TURN IN WITH A SOCKET WRENCH INBETWEEN THE COIL SPRINGS. I HAD TO SECURE THEM SO THEY DON'T SPIN USING TIE STRAPS. SEEM TO BE WORKING. Sorry the cap lock got hit.
Why didn't you just change the springs to get the ride height you wanted?

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  #108  
Old 05-15-2022, 02:30 AM
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Why didn't you just change the springs to get the ride height you wanted?
Mikes Reply:

I found out after calling Hurb Adams, because it is his suspension in the car, that the Spindle lowering kit is "not" his, they are from Belltech. The 2" lower front spindles are from an Impala, they came out way before today's Brake and lowering kits. The Caliper's Pads were above the rotor by about a half inch. So, I decided to remove the 11" Rotors and install the 12 " Rotors from a newer model Impala, police version, that would fit the Belltech spindle. I don't have to tell you how much time and research that I had to do to even get to this conclusion. Hurb Adams agreed with my fix and we had a conversation about his Contessa. He likened the car to a woman's body lines and I would compare it to a Jag. and Daytona Coup. Contessa means kept women he replied. Hurb was nice to speak with and gave me the attention I could only be grateful to get from a celebrity. For now, the replacement of an available 12 " Rotor was an inexpensive way to keep driving the Vehicle. This car has lower race Springs, existing Belltech Spindles and Koni Shocks, so I added Braided lines and Metalic Brake Pads for now. Since I have 15" Rims and the option to use my 17" rims, I have to be careful and plan the next Brake upgrade and Suspension upgrade with the Rims that I have. Brakes upgraded and new tires on the fat rims cost a lot of money. For now, I am on a budget build and it works because I have disc Brakes in the rear. "I am moving inches forward, not feet".

Yes, Replacement of the front Spring would have lifted the car in the front and if I had already done that, perhaps I would not have bottomed out the car going over a root under an asphalt drive way within a year ago. I now have to rebuild the TH 400 Trans; parts are sitting next to me. I still have the option to do what you're saying, but the car handles well with Hurb Adams kit.


Last edited by TRADERMIKE 2012; 05-15-2022 at 02:47 AM.
  #109  
Old 05-18-2022, 01:47 AM
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Originally Posted by TRADERMIKE 2012 View Post
Mike Reply: From the closed "Vapor lock and options Thread"...Please read this Thread, it will help in this one, for sure!

Mikes Proof:

"However, the engine valves (particularly the exhaust valves) shouldn’t be overlooked for the role they play in keeping an engine cool. The exhaust valves take 75 percent of the heat from the combustion chamber and the valve seats have the responsibility of helping to cool them off by drawing heat away from the valves and conducting it into the cylinder head".


Schurke said:
Valves DO NOT "take 75% of the heat from the combustion chamber". I'm not sure they even get to 75% of the peak TEMPERATURE of combustion. We do know the difference between heat and temperature...right?

And even if they did--which I am not acknowledging as fact--iron vs. Aluminum has almost no effect on engine compartment temperature.

Mikes Reply: Again, combustion makes Heat and Heat is attracted to cold Metal, there for heating up the cast block then heating up the Engine compartment, metal will use convection to air and again through the closed Hood, especially when you stop, ever see those Heat waves looking out the window?


Mikes Reply to: "there's some heat going into the cooling system via the interior surface of the combustion chamber"...The Heat developed at the inside wall of the cylinder through convection into the cast Block, therefor, the Heat exchanged at that point is Heating up the cast Block. This is why I use the Water Wetter solution; it reduces the bubbles that are attached to the inside cylinder walls called cavitation and makes the wall slippery to remove the air bubbles so the Antifreeze can remove the Heat better from the Hot cylinder walls and carry it away to the Radiator to be released to the atmosphere.

Schurke said:
A well-known if somewhat inaccurate estimation is that the cooling system removes 1/3 of the heat produced by combustion, the exhaust system removes 1/3 of the heat produced by combustion...

Valves cannot take 75% of the heat of combustion, if ~33% of the heat is doing useful work, and another ~33% of the heat is going out the tailpipe. Then there's some heat going into the cooling system via the interior surface of the combustion chamber other than the valves, and the oil.

Then there's the failed idea that "valves have a role to play in keeping the engine cool." No, they don't. They are cooled by the engine, not the other way around.

Mikes Reply: Not according to what I read then you read from what I posted. I tend to believe the Auther who directly interviewed the Factory that Installs the Valve seats, plus my original statement was just common sense.

Schurke said:
"The remaining 1/3 does useful work, driving the piston down and moving the vehicle".

The exhaust valves take 75 percent of the heat from the combustion chamber...

Mike believes they meant the: "1/3 does useful work, driving the piston down and moving the vehicle".... The exhaust valves take 75 percent of the heat from the combustion chamber, take 75% of the 1/3 that does the useful work of driving the piston's down and moving the vehicle...JMO




https://www.enginebuildermag.com/201...ves-and-seats/

https://www.aa1car.com/library/ar993...haust%20valves

https://www.enginebuildermag.com/201...s-valve-seats/

https://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/...-seats.827920/

http://www.redlineoil.com/content/fi...ech%20Info.pdf



Mikes second Reply:


I chose this passage from this "URL", that I want you to read please. I thought at the time that I made my statement, "wouldn't it be nice to have a ceramic type phenolic valve seat to keep the head from having to transfer so much heat"? Also, when I made my statement, I had not read this "URL" yet, so I was speaking purely from speculation, turns out my intuitions are good.



"However, the engine valves (particularly the exhaust valves) shouldn’t be overlooked for the role they play in keeping an engine cool. The exhaust valves take 75 percent of the heat from the combustion chamber and the valve seats have the responsibility of helping to cool them off by drawing heat away from the valves and conducting it into the cylinder head".



"The seats are slowly destroyed by micro welding. The red-hot exhaust valve transfers heat to the seat for the brief time it's closed. The lead in fuel helped the heat transfer so valve gear was designed for use with lead. When the lead disappeared, micro welding occurred when the exhaust valve touched the seat eroding the seat. Eventually the manufacturers solved the problem with different materials.
People often mention stainless steel exhaust valves as a fix, I've taken apart Chevy engines as old as 1937 and they had stainless exhaust valves. I assume other engines used stainless, not all engines are affected the same."


Last edited by TRADERMIKE 2012; 05-18-2022 at 02:14 AM.
  #110  
Old 05-18-2022, 08:16 AM
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My #12 heads still have their original seats and valves in them. When I rebuilt the engine 25 years ago I opted to not bother replacing those parts as they were in perfect condition, so new guides were installed and a nice valve job done, along with positive seals installed and they were put back in service.

Fast forward about 6 years ago and nearly 70,000 miles, and more drag race passes than I can count, I pulled the engine apart to fix a couple leaks, a cam change, and check things over. Valves and seats were still perfect, I simply lapped the valves in and put them back in service with a new set of springs.

I've put about 40,000 miles on it since and several more trips to the dragstrip.

It doesn't vapor lock or run hot. In fact I can't seem to get this engine to run more than 185 degrees, and it has to be over 100 outside to see that. Most of the time this thing runs in the 170's no matter what I'm doing with it.

On top of daily driving it I go round after round with it at the track. I don't even open the hood. It's deadly consistent. It doesn't need cool down time, it just doesn't care.

https://youtu.be/er1z7PpqsnY

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  #111  
Old 05-18-2022, 09:58 AM
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Originally Posted by TRADERMIKE 2012 View Post
Originally Posted by TRADERMIKE 2012 View Post
Mike Reply: From the closed "Vapor lock and options Thread"...Please read this Thread, it will help in this one, for sure!
that thread was closed for a reason... why are you regurgitating the same thing again here??

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  #112  
Old Yesterday, 12:01 AM
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My #12 heads still have their original seats and valves in them. When I rebuilt the engine 25 years ago, I opted not to bother replacing those parts as they were in perfect condition, so new guides were installed and a nice valve job done, along with positive seals installed and they were put back in service.

Fast forward about 6 years ago and nearly 70,000 miles, and more drag race passes than I can count, I pulled the engine apart to fix a couple leaks, a cam change and check things over. Valves and seats were still perfect, I simply lapped the valves in and put them back in service with a new set of springs.

I've put about 40,000 miles on it since and several more trips to the dragstrip.

It doesn't vapor lock or run hot. In fact, I can't seem to get this engine to run more than 185 degrees and it has to be over 100 degrees outside to see that. Most of the time this thing runs in the 170's no matter what I'm doing with it.

On top of daily driving, I go round after round with it at the track. I don't even open the hood. It's deadly consistent. It doesn't need cool down time; it just doesn't care.

https://youtu.be/er1z7PpqsnY
Mikes Reply:

Some of the new reading that I have provided explains that the original valves without the addition of valve seats were hardened by the change to non-leaded fuel due to a chemical reaction between the SS valves and the Iron cast in the Block. It is when a Shop remove's that hardened surface and does not use the new seats that they will ware in 3k miles or so.

PS, Nice car , sounds like you know what you're doing, good luck.

  #113  
Old Yesterday, 12:27 AM
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that thread was closed for a reason... why are you regurgitating the same thing again here??
Mikes Reply:

Closing the Thread was wrong, it should be reopened, let's keep it factual and prove your side with one piece of evidence. The heating up of the engine compartment is from the Combustion process. How else can the under-hood temps. be raised enough to cause Vapor lock, overheating and hot under the hood Temps. At one time when I raised the hood it was like the sun hitting my face and somehow, little by little, right or wrong fixes, I beat them all. Lucky me. And about the real fix which is the 421-drill hole one, I am seriously contemplating that one in the future. Please keep it civil and just present your evidence. I am always willing to learn. Purely conjecture is that if I were to replace the Valve seats it would make a difference in under the hood temps. , I now realize since I looked more into the detail about the valve seats that the original cast into the block valve seats were hardened by a chemical process changing to un-leaded fuel, so it is not necessary to change the valve seats unless they have recessed deep into their holes. Since the valve seats transfer exhaust heat from the block to the heads, my conjecture statement still stands. You see today the valve seats are made of so many various materials and some actually act as phenolic, if I were to use a phenolic type valve seat between the Block and valve it could and would lower my under-hood temps.? Again, this is a new topic. Take it as conjecture as it is meant, if you did not question me, I would not have delved into this subject as deeply, so thank you for questioning me, I needed to know more it seems.


Last edited by TRADERMIKE 2012; Yesterday at 01:06 AM.
  #114  
Old Yesterday, 02:15 AM
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Mikes Reply:

One example:

Titanium valves tend to hold more heat than stainless steel valves so they require upgrading the seats to some type of copper alloy. Copper provides good thermal conductivity to pull heat out of the valve when the valve is closed. For many years, copper-beryllium alloy seats were used with titanium valves. Copper-beryllium alloys typically contain less than 3% beryllium. Even so, beryllium dust is dangerous and requires special precautions when machining seats. Using a cutting oil or coolant is recommended along with an OSHA-approved dust mask.

If a customer can’t afford titanium valves, another way to reduce valve weight significantly is to go with hollow stem stainless steel valves. Hollow stem valves can reduce weight 10% or more to achieve some of the same benefits as titanium valves without the cost. To improve cooling, the hollow stems on exhaust valves may be partially filled with sodium. Sodium melts at 200 degrees F and improves heat flow up through the valve stem 40% or more. This helps pull heat away from the head of the valve for longer valve life and greater reliability. It also allows the engine to handle more heat and spark advance.


Last edited by TRADERMIKE 2012; Yesterday at 02:24 AM.
  #115  
Old Yesterday, 03:10 AM
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Mikes Reply:

More evidence from the URL's I provided, if you read them, you will find all my examples. See Post # 109 please!

"One point everyone does seem to agree upon is that valve seats play a critical role in the longevity of the valves. "The seats draw heat away from the valves and conduct it into the cylinder head. This provides most of the cooling that the valves receive and is absolutely critical with exhaust valves". Anything that interferes with the seat's ability to cool the valves (such as a loose fit or deposits between the seat and its counterbore) can lead to premature valve failure and expensive comebacks.
The seat alloy and hardness must also be matched to the application and compatible with the type of valves that are installed in the engine. Again, we found differences of opinion regarding the selection and use of various seat materials".


Last edited by TRADERMIKE 2012; Yesterday at 03:37 AM.
  #116  
Old Yesterday, 03:36 AM
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Mikes Reply:

More evidence to get people to read the URL's I posted in # 109.

"When replacing a seat, you should use one that is at least as good as the original if not better. Hard seats are a must for high temperature, high load and dry fuel (propane or natural gas applications). In fact, most seat suppliers have special alloys specifically designed for dry fuel applications. But hard seats are not required for light duty passenger car applications. Even so, many aftermarket seats are made of premium grade alloys or heat-treated iron to provide improved longevity and performance".

As one seat supplier put it, "considering the insignificant difference in price between a so-so seat and a good seat, would you rather not sleep at night?"

Seat and valve materials must be compatible with one another as well as suited for the application. A hard valve generally requires a hard seat and vice versa. A stellite faced valve in an industrial engine, for example, would require a stellite seat. A titanium racing valve, on the other hand (which is relatively soft), would require a soft cast iron or beryllium-copper seat.

  #117  
Old Yesterday, 03:47 AM
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Mikes Reply:

More empirical evidence, in post #109

"The hard schoolers say things like you need a seat with a hardness of Rockwell C 37 to 45 for unleaded fuel, and 40 to 50 Rc for propane, natural gas and high compression/turbo applications. But Joe Keon Jr. of Martin-Wells, which is one of two companies in the U.S. that manufacturer valve seats (L.E. Jones being the other), toughness and durability are better measures of quality. Keon emphasizes the metallurgical aspects of selecting a seat material.
Keon said the first hard material that was used for industrial valve seats was stellite #3 (cobalt with 30% chrome, 12% tungsten and 2.5% carbon). The seats were made by welding stellite onto a tool steel base material.

"In those days they did not think about heat transfer. All they wanted was a seat platform that was as hard as possible. The next step in the evolution of seat materials was to synthesize hardness. By heat treating tool steel, seat hardness could be increased to Rc 43. But if a heat-treated seat is subjected to overheating, you get grain inversion and the molecules return to their original position. You lose that hardness".

  #118  
Old Yesterday, 03:54 AM
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Mikes Reply:

Interesting stuff, learning a lot from modern knowledge!

"Forty years ago, we came up with our Well-Tite formula that achieves the same wearability of a 52 Rockwell C stellite type of product but with a hardness of only 35 to 37. And it does a far better job of dissipating heat. The Well-Tite alloy contains 42% nickel, which sucks the heat away from the valve. It has 10 to 12% chrome for oxidation, and 7% moly for toughness. We also found that our formula produces an oxide layer that works up to the surface through a chemical action and acts like a lubricant to prolong valve life."

Keon said "Well-Tite seats are not heat treated, but are machined and sold as cast." He says this allows them to handle high temperatures without danger of grain inversion. He also said the unique Well-Tite ally has an excellent memory characteristic that allows a seat to return to its original size after heating without distortion, which means the seats will not loosen or fall out if an engine overheats.
Keon said rebuilders should be especially careful about the quality of the seats they buy. He said many offshore suppliers are less than thorough about their quality control measures, yet charge as much for cast iron seats as ones that contain superior alloys".

  #119  
Old Yesterday, 04:53 AM
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Mikes Reply:

I found more valve to seat info.

"Inadequate valve cooling and premature valve failure is another problem that can be caused by worn guides or ones with excessive clearance. About 75% of the heat from a typical valve is conducted to the seat, and the remaining 25% goes up the stem and out through the guide. On late mode engines with three-angle narrow seats, the amount of heat transfer that takes place through the stem is even higher because less heat can be dissipated through the seat. So, if the guide is worn, the valve may run hot and burn".

https://www.aa1car.com/library/ar696.htm

New to Mike, is that the valve stem guides are also involved in cooling the valve stems! Read this above and below please:

3. "Next, the liners are sized. Any of three different techniques may be used: roller burnishing (use with lubrication), broaching (driving a calibrated ball through the liner with an air hammer), or using K-Line's ball broach tool in an air hammer.

Sizing the liners is a critical step because it accomplishes two things: it provides the proper clearances between valve stem and liner for proper lubrication and oil control, and it locks the liner in place so it will transfer heat efficiently to the surrounding metal for proper valve cooling. Bronze actually conducts heat more efficiently than cast iron, but requires a tight fit and metal-to-metal contact with the surrounding guide for good heat transfer. If the liner is not sized properly, it may cause the valve to run hot, or worse yet, come loose".



"Replacement guides come in various alloys and varieties including bronze, cast iron and powdered metal. Phosphor/bronze, silicon/aluminum/bronze and manganese/bronze are generally more expensive than cast iron but are harder and usually provide superior wear resistance. With leaded gasoline, bronze guides typically lasted 3 to 5 times longer than cast iron. But with unleaded gasoline the difference in longevity between cast iron and bronze is not as great according to one supplier of bronze guides. However, bronze still provides superior heat transfer, resists seizing and can handle closer tolerances (which improves valve life and reduces oil consumption). That is why thick wall bronze guides are preferred by many performance shops".

  #120  
Old Yesterday, 11:02 AM
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Mike found this as I was on the internet, it is a close to the 421-drill fix as they come, read this please: third Article down.

https://www.fordmuscle.com/tech-stor...r-to-the-hemi/

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