[Donovan]

aw yeah, the 460 Firebird. Good times my friend...

[ChadH]

A new picture...

[Lee]

Have you seen the numbers people are getting out of 460's with the newer Kaase heads? WOW!!! There are even relatively cheap stroker cranks to put that motor in the 530" range.

If I were building ANY sort of project from scratch right now, that is the route I'd go.

Lee

[Stuckinda60s]

Chad:

That 400 that lost oil pressure on start-up, did it by any chance have the oil filter bypass plugged? If it did, you might have sheared the oil pump drive shaft and the engine might be alright.

[BruceWilkie]

Originally Posted by Lee

Have you seen the numbers people are getting out of 460's with the newer Kaase heads? WOW!!! There are even relatively cheap stroker cranks to put that motor in the 530" range.

If I were building ANY sort of project from scratch right now, that is the route I'd go.

Lee

I'm in process of doing a Kaase headed 460. While its tempting to put my 528 combo in my 84 GP because all I need to do is beef the drivetrain I cant bring myself to further corrupt my Pontiac.(The factory pos 305 sbc is bad enough.) The motor will be going in a 71 Torino which is pretty much the same chassis as a 69-72 Mustang or 66-71 Fairlane. 72 up Torinos got fat and full frame rear coil suspension etc.. Base weight on a 71 Torino/Fairlane with a 302 automatic is about 3250 lbs. (A friends 76 Torino that he put a 460 in was over 4400 lbs with only a few gallons of gas in the tank. Somehow he still made enough power on pump gas and factory heads to run 11.90's!!!)

On the Ford motor. I went with a forged Eagle 4.3" stroke and .060" overbore for 528 cid. I could have gone .080 over(common) and 4.5 stroke for 557 cid. All from a production block. The standard bore space aftermarket blocks can go to around 605 cid or so. Compstar 6.8H beams, Diamond Pistons(flat tops 13.3 comp), Canton pan, Studded and partial fill block, Kaase oil pump, solid roller cam, Smith Bros. pushrods, Kaase P51 heads. I chose a tunnel ram over a victor because I already had a matching pair of 750's and a good Dominator is about the same price as a race convertor which I'll need. (powerwise the Weiand tunnel ram with the 750's will be about the same with a tid more tq.) SFI balancer, JW flexplate, new replacement timing cover, std water pump, chromed aluminum Ford Racing valve covers, Hooker 2.125" super comp headers. I'm a tid over $10k and after dyno will still be under $11k. Power should be around 800+. BTW the Kaase P51 heads complete ready to bolt on with roller springs (Manley Nextec's) were $2600. Also Manley valves and Comp retainers and locks. (mine as cast with Kaase valve-job flowed slightly more than advertised at 413 at .800 lift). These heads are very capable of overpowering a factory block. The Ford Racing heads, Blue Thunder, and TrickFlow, and Edelbrock heads, heck factory iron even, are all very capable of 600 - 800+ hp depending what you want to spend.

http://460ford.com if you looking for info.

I'm budgeting another $4k for driveline and figure I should be able to bring final project cost including paint wheels tire interior and cage in below $20k if I do most of the work.

[BruceWilkie]

BTW my wife just saw this and warned me if any Ford ends up in her 69 bird I'm dead. Further more, if I put my 528 in my Pontiac she dont know if she would want to know me any longer!!! Guess I'll listen and comply

[joes455]

Why the high angle of the 460?

[Stuckinda60s]

Cause the nose is 2 feet in the air?

[Stuckinda60s]

By the way, did no one else notice that the pictures are of a '69?

[67bonnie455]

I can't imagine you can work on a 460 shoe horned into an F body. I had trouble fitting one in 70's F150 truck. Those things are big and heavy!

[455Grandville]

Originally Posted by Lee

Have you seen the numbers people are getting out of 460's with the newer Kaase heads? WOW!!! There are even relatively cheap stroker cranks to put that motor in the 530" range.

If I were building ANY sort of project from scratch right now, that is the route I'd go.

Lee

You can offset grind a 460 crank to 4.150" and they hold hold well -

One company is now making Boss 429 heads I believe

[BruceWilkie]

Originally Posted by 455Grandville

You can offset grind a 460 crank to 4.150" and they hold hold well -


YES lots of journal overlap and stock 2.5" rod journals give plenty of material to stroke with. They suggest if your going for more than 750- 800 hp get a forged crank. Many a racer has gone over 800 hp on stock cast crank, some have spun them over 8000 and some with truck rods have survived in the same hp range at lower rpms. One of Kaase's dyno mules survived a 900 hp dyno run on prepped factory truck rods but during a tear down to test something else he noted pistons were not lined up and the rods had started twisting.

One company is now making Boss 429 heads I believe

Actually two, but I cant think of the one co off hand, Kaase's version is a better bolt on deal.

http://460ford.com is revamping and a head ranking post has much info mia.

http://www.jonkaaseracingengines.com/ for info on P51 and Boss429 heads.

Stock 460's are really not much different in weight than a BB Mopar or BBC. The old FE series fords are very heavy. 460 block is approx 0.1" taller than Pontiac block and not very much heavier than a Pontiac. Iron heads a tid heavier. The crank is a tid heavier, the intake is very heavy so are the exhaust manifolds. With aluminum heads and intake and headers your probably close in weight to a IA2 Pontiac. BTW Fords 460 has 4 bolts per cylinder like Pontiac and like Pontiac the head bolts go into blind bosses. Pontiac dowels their main caps vs Ford having a slight shoulder at the parting line. Pontiac is better in that regard. Ford has a bit more material in the bulkheads. Oil systems are similar but different. Ford uses a more efficient gerotor pump but its up front and stock pumps have been known to break at their mount boss.(Kaase pump way stronger/better but pricey) Ford has a very strong lifter valley. Overall I have to say the Ford is a pretty good piece and surprisingly cost about the same as building a Pontiac. Surprised also that too many Ford guys ignore them and play with 302's and 351W's or FE's instead.

[455Grandville]

Originally Posted by BruceWilkie

Actually two, but I cant think of the one co off hand, Kaase's version is a better bolt on deal.

http://460ford.com is revamping and a head ranking post has much info mia.

http://www.jonkaaseracingengines.com/ for info on P51 and Boss429 heads.

Stock 460's are really not much different in weight than a BB Mopar or BBC. The old FE series fords are very heavy. 460 block is approx 0.1" taller than Pontiac block and not very much heavier than a Pontiac. Iron heads a tid heavier. The crank is a tid heavier, the intake is very heavy so are the exhaust manifolds. With aluminum heads and intake and headers your probably close in weight to a IA2 Pontiac. BTW Fords 460 has 4 bolts per cylinder like Pontiac and like Pontiac the head bolts go into blind bosses. Pontiac dowels their main caps vs Ford having a slight shoulder at the parting line. Pontiac is better in that regard. Ford has a bit more material in the bulkheads. Oil systems are similar but different. Ford uses a more efficient gerotor pump but its up front and stock pumps have been known to break at their mount boss.(Kaase pump way stronger/better but pricey) Ford has a very strong lifter valley. Overall I have to say the Ford is a pretty good piece and surprisingly cost about the same as building a Pontiac. Surprised also that too many Ford guys ignore them and play with 302's and 351W's or FE's instead.

460s are great, I like Fords counterbored bolt holes' they're nice to have if you do any decking to the block.
I have a 427 cid SVO engine I'm thinking of dropping in a old T Bird that's sitting behind the shop with a blown 255. Not a popular bodystyle, but FOX parts interchange easily and there's a lot out there and it's a light car.

[Lee]

Originally Posted by BruceWilkie

Overall I have to say the Ford is a pretty good piece and surprisingly cost about the same as building a Pontiac. Surprised also that too many Ford guys ignore them and play with 302's and 351W's or FE's instead.

Well, the P51's were not out when I started my Falcon station wagon project (I was looking for the Kaase SBF's at that time, but those were out of production), or else I would have gone that route. I ended up with a 425" 351W with AFR's.
It is a tight fit as it is, and headers were a pain to find - I'd probably ended up with a totally different car if I had gone 460.

Lee

[goquick]

Originally Posted by BruceWilkie

BTW my wife just saw this and warned me if any Ford ends up in her 69 bird I'm dead. Further more, if I put my 528 in my Pontiac she dont know if she would want to know me any longer!!! Guess I'll listen and comply

Better keep her, she's a smart woman !

[goquick]

Originally Posted by Lee

Well, the P51's were not out when I started my Falcon station wagon project (I was looking for the Kaase SBF's at that time, but those were out of production), or else I would have gone that route. I ended up with a 425" 351W with AFR's.
It is a tight fit as it is, and headers were a pain to find - I'd probably ended up with a totally different car if I had gone 460.

Lee

In gm land, we back half cars. In Ford land, you front half them first them move to the back. Why the companies have all went to the rib pokers (like your Falcon) wasting space under the hoods now is beyond me. It sure isn't for better handling as you can make many other set ups do just as well.
Now my 63 Falcon needs more tire clearence, but I fronthalfed it first! No rib poker towers in the way now!
Back to topic, a 460 Ford with a 547 stroker kit and the P51 heads might be the lowest cost way to 900 hp.