[dci]

I just want to say that I am in no way defending Edelbrock or slamming anyone. After reading that last post someone might think that. Sorry for any confusion.


Don Johnston
DCI MOTORSPORTS INC.
330-850-5050 Shop
330-628-3354 cell
Designer of the DCI Tiger Heads and the NEW DCI Ram Air V heads !!!!!!

[Wareagle]

Originally Posted by 428RA4

> but I think that the 428 version of the RA V could have produced as much or more HP.<

Hence, my insanity in the hobby. A 428, you can buzz it like a 400 and have more torque. Yes a 455 has a lot of torque, but it poops out around 5500 ish.

The 428 is by far my favorite engine in stockish class mode.

Yes that is a good combo - Jim Wangers used a similar combo ( 455 With a 428 crank - 440 ci. ) in his 9 sec. 74 T/A and is now in his Ponticarlo - revved really good - saw that T/A run - it kicked Butt

[Blk12wls]

3D Rapid Prototyping like that used on a street intake for a Sonny's mega build is always possible. Costs will come in line as more accept this type of engineering. I also think there are plenty of people that would front cash for a serious project that they feel will be profitable. Less than 1% return in a bank is unacceptable for venture capitalists right now. Eliminate risk and the $ will come. Really like this project. Best of luck.

[Ron H]

I spun my 455 over 8000, late shifts, a couple times. Not sure where it is done at 5500 unless it has a stock top end and RA1V cam?

[428RA4]

Originally Posted by Ron H

I spun my 455 over 8000, late shifts, a couple times. Not sure where it is done at 5500 unless it has a stock top end and RA1V cam?

Yeah, I know it's a general statement assuming factory parts, but the intake usually is the restriction with normally aspirated engines.

[dci]

I'm pretty sure that we will not have a 5500 rpm limit with these heads LOL. All of the factory RA V engines I have built with stock heads, did not start pulling hard until 4,000 rpm. With the vanes that I put in my ports. I hope that my heads on a medium cubic inch engine will start to pull around 3,000 rpm, and continue to pull well past 5500 rpm. The only thing that worries me. Is the low rise intake to fit under the stock hood that I am designing right now. I know Toms has done allot of dynoing with different intakes, and the low rise single four intake definitely limited upper rpm horsepower. Part of that is because it was a dual plane. That is why the intake that I am designing will be a single plane which will help tremendously.



Don Johnston
DCI MOTORSPORTS INC.
330-850-5050 Shop
330-628-3354 cell
Designer of the DCI Tiger Heads and the NEW DCI Ram Air V heads !!!!!!

[tom s]

Don,the converted ford single plane did VERY good!Was stock height as the factory single 4.Tom

[428RA4]

And the dual is twice as good~!

[tom s]

Hardly,it was 5 percent better!Tom

[428RA4]

That was more of a tongue and cheek comment Tom~!

[dci]

Tom was that a single four or dual four set up?


Don Johnston
DCI MOTORSPORTS INC.
330-850-5050 Shop
330-628-3354 cell
Designer of the DCI Tiger Heads and the NEW DCI Ram Air V heads !!!!!!

[Kevspontiacs@aol.com]

Don,
any new info/pix you can share?

[tom s]

Don,the single plane 2-4 made 5 percent more HP than the single plane single 4.That was 30 HP.Tom

[moparcolt]

don cant you just print off an intake on the machine that made the head prototype and paint it to look like aluminum?

Chris

[dci]

We are getting closer. The machine shop is working hard to make sure that everything is were it should be. I am very lucky that the guy that is working on this project is a die hard Pontiac guy himself. So he has a real good understanding of what is needed to make this work the first time. We are very close and might be making chips as soon as next week. I am not rushing it though, it takes as long as it takes. I want these to be right on the first time.

Chris, We actually considered that, but the cost factor is just to far out of reach. It is actually cheaper to make the castings and sell them. The cost of the machines and the the print time to make a part all adds up. The FDM machines are good for making a prototype part that can be used for measuring and fitting. You would not believe what the cost is for an FDM part of that size. We probably will make a prototype intake once we get the cad drawings finished, but it will be used for test fitting only. The other part of FDM parts is they are very porous. So they would need to be sealed some how before putting it into service.


Thanks Tom for the info. Did you ever get a chance to look for the dyno sheets?

Don Johnston
DCI MOTORSPORTS INC.
330-850-5050 Shop
330-628-3354 cell
Designer of the DCI Tiger Heads and the NEW DCI Ram Air V heads !!!!!!

[tom s]

Don,I did a quick look but over the years I have dynoed so many engines I could not find them.If you look for the thread it will tell what happened to the RPMs that the intakes peaked at.Every change raised the level with no change in timing.On the single carb runs there was not change in jetting.The reason I just wanted to make the pulls and get it off the dyno as you know time is money.I was just trying to prove a point of what I had been saying for years that the stock intake is the choke for the V heads.Tom

[dci]

I agree with you on that. I'm not sure why Pontiac even considered a dual plane intake for such a high rpm head. Maybe they were just making a compromise for the street crowd to give the engine some street manors.


Don Johnston
DCI MOTORSPORTS INC.
330-850-5050 Shop
330-628-3354 cell
Designer of the DCI Tiger Heads and the NEW DCI Ram Air V heads !!!!!!

[Elarson]

Originally Posted by dci

I agree with you on that. I'm not sure why Pontiac even considered a dual plane intake for such a high rpm head. Maybe they were just making a compromise for the street crowd to give the engine some street manors.


Don Johnston
DCI MOTORSPORTS INC.
330-850-5050 Shop
330-628-3354 cell
Designer of the DCI Tiger Heads and the NEW DCI Ram Air V heads !!!!!!

Just guessing....but everything that the engineers did had to be sold to management as having the potential for showroom floor sales....hence the streetable potential. It's easy to imagine them figuring that racers could easily change to a different intake.

I had an interesting conversation with the late Mac McKellar. He related that the factory engineers found much better cylinder-to-cylinder mixture uniformity with the dual plane intakes.

FWIW,
Eric

[Skip Fix]

Figure even the high revving 302 SBC, ZL-1 BBC both had dual planes from the factory back then. Not sure they had a single plane-unless you consider the factory Chevy and Pontiac cross rams that had a common plenum a "single plane".

Of course now GM and Mopar have factory single planes in their catalogs. Chevy even has a dual carb bolt pattern cast iron dual plane for the class circle track guys that need a cast iron and mounts a Holley in a different postion than a Qjet to center both more evenly-something the aftermarket dual carb patterns do not do.

I always wondered why some dual planes carried the individual carb bore holes down so far in the deep plenum. Our HO/RAIV even had 4 holes-my 409s had 3-one for the shallow plenum and two the deeper plenum. Most of the later Z28 and BBC hi perf did not.

[dci]

I thought I would share with everyone a RA V engine that I am refreshing right now. This engine was built back in 2008 road hard and put away wet. You can see in the pic's that the valve arrangement of the 5 heads does not create the hot spot between the two center cylinders like the standard Pontiac valve arrangement. I think that is a huge factor in controlling cylinder pressure and will greatly reduce head gasket failures when using my 5 heads. I also took a couple of pic's of the crank and bearings. This engine has about 15,000 hard miles on it with a Ohio forged crank. The crank did not require anything out of the ordinary. It was taken out of the box from Ohio crank cleaned, mic'd, to check bearing clearances, and installed. This crank was purchased in late 2007 and the quality compared to the ones I get now was far nicer. To me the so called forged cranks we are seeing now look like castings not forgings. I'm sure they must be forgings or they could not sell them as such, but they sure do not look the same.

Don Johnston
DCI MOTORSPORTS INC.
330-850-5050 Shop
330-628-3354 cell
Designer of the DCI Tiger Heads and the NEW DCI Ram Air V heads !!!!!!