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#1
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Hydramtic overhaul cost? Looking @ dream car
Looked at a pretty nice car last night but there are some serious engine/ trans concerns.
It is represented as 70K, original. The drive train feels rather "course" and maybe the hydramtic should be refreshed? What sort of cost might a guy get into- I would do the R&R. Also the crank was thumping on a warm restart until the oil pressure caught up. 'Warning, warning Will Robinson!" |
#2
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What year / model Pontiac?
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#3
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It's in a '57- not much interest in FS cars here?
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#4
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I wouldn't say not much interest....runs in spurts and depends on what people have on their plates I suppose. So are you basically saying that you would R&R the transmission? If the 57 has it's original drivetrain then the trans is a dual coupling 4 speed. From what I know about them (have one in my 1960 Ventura) they are fairly complicated to work on. They are also very sensitive to the throttle pressure adjustment so that could be an issue depending on what the symptoms are. I personally would not attempt to rebuild a dual coupling hydro because I just do not have the experience and would probably not know what I was looking at if I took one apart (i.e. in terms of a good versus bad part unless it was obviously trashed). You could search for Edwards transmission parts on the "net" as a good source for parts and to get an idea of prices. To have someone overhaul the trans I would guess anywhere between $1500 - 2500 or more if you can find someone that knows their way around one of these. Not trying to scare you off, as I'm in the same boat basically. I started a thread on this trans some time back that got pretty good feedback. If you are interested do a search under Poncho60.
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#5
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That's what I'm talking about.
Thanks! |
#6
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I have link to a site by someone who took it upon himself to rebuild the dual coupling hydro in his Cadillac. If you are interested in seeing it I might be able to figure out how to get it to you.
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#7
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These cars are fairly expensive to rebuild. You can usually find a good pulled part far cheaper.
That said. I know a place that would likely sell you a rebuild kit inexpensively. The place was rebuilding transmissions back when this one was new. Mine was leaking bad out of the front seal and that was as far as I got on mine before I knew I wanted to go no further. I even had to get some advice from this place putting the taurus back together. (the converter). My Motors manual didn't have the washers/spacers quite as I had them in my hand. LOL He told me then he had a kit he would sell cheap. The shifter rods do have to be set up just right or it will act wonky. (I had to call another old timer to do this) |
#8
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trans overhaul
If you are interested, I have a '56 trans that was on a '56 motor that I bought from Indiana Pontiac. The motor had a VERY minor ridge at the top of the standard cylinders and the inside of the motor was pretty clean. It indicates, to me, that it was either a low mileage car or very well maintained. Its free for shipping costs. Includes the fluid coupling and the heat exchanger, with water lines. If you don't want it, it is available to anyone interested. I hate to scrap it. Billk
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#9
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If you are not looking for original. Replace the engine and trans with later ones. I put a 1976 400 and Turbo 400 trans in my 1957 Chieftain because it was WAY cheaper. Even used a set of later exhaust manifolds so I didn't need headers.
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#10
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Next weekend I hope to re- eval the car.
This is an original 70K, paint, metal, drive train car that I would keep until I die. The price is within striking distance but if she needs engine or trans work, the price would need to be adjusted or I would be in pretty deep. Should I be lucky enough to own her, you will see a new blog. Stay tuned! |
#11
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Not easy but definitely doable would be to find a way to get a TH350 or TH400 in that '57.
I would ask Goatracer1 about the specific details of his TH400 swap, however keeping your original 347 would require an adapter plate to mate the later trans to the engine and provide a place to mount the starter motor. If your car has bellhousing side mounts your adapter plate would need to incorporate these as well, look in the Danchuck catalog for the '55-'57 Chevy for a bellhousing side mount adapter to use or copy. Getting rid of that expensive to rebuild and inherently unreliable original trans would make owning this car for the rest of your days a lot more pleasurable and would likely cost less than rebuilding it.
__________________
1964 Tempest Coupe LS3/4L70E/3.42 1964 Le Mans Convertible 421 HO/TH350/2.56 2002 WS6 Convertible LS1/4L60E/3.23 |
#12
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Should be a "Jetaway" (Super Hydro) if stock....I would think a turbo 400 would fit wo too much of a problem. Wilcap or Bendtsen makes an adapter for the later transmissions.......probably around $750 just for the adapter. As an aside, at least it's not a roto-rooter. I get the impression that a lot of folks when they think they are having problems w the Super Hydro don't really research how to adjust the linkage as a first attempt at troubleshooting. Don't know if the 57 is the same as the 60 but I would guess that it probably should be....not that difficult to check the linkage adjustment.
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#13
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I agree it would be expensive to rebuild (mainly because there aren't that many people left who know anything about them) but they weren't inherently unreliable...those old Hydramatics were very good transmissions.
As for a total engine/trans swap, it may be less expensive in the end if you can do all your own fabrication, welding, and installation, but I suspect it would cost more if you have to farm all that out to a shop. |
#14
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Perhaps I went to far describing them as an inherently unreliable unit, but it just seems like the known auto trans issues (whether it be reliability or ease of finding parts or service) on most all '64 and older big Pontiacs makes them hard to own for many and even keeps some enthusiasts from buying these cars in the first place.
Good luck with the '57 Poncho purchase.
__________________
1964 Tempest Coupe LS3/4L70E/3.42 1964 Le Mans Convertible 421 HO/TH350/2.56 2002 WS6 Convertible LS1/4L60E/3.23 |
#15
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Changing the trans to a modern unit would also require a gear change as these cars used a high ratio with a stump puller 1st gear.
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#16
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I don't have any specs on the 57's but my 60 w the super hydro has a 3.08 rear, which was standard according to the service manual.
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#17
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Quote:
Torque converter technology back in the '50s wasn't all that well-refined so many of the cars used a stump-puller low gear to compensate for the lack of torque multiplication provided by the torque converters or fluid couplings. Pontiac built plenty of 350-powered A-body and F-body cars with a 3-speed auto and a 2.78 or 2.56 rear in the '60s and '70s, they're not much different in car weight and horsepower as compared to a 1957 Pontiac.
__________________
1964 Tempest Coupe LS3/4L70E/3.42 1964 Le Mans Convertible 421 HO/TH350/2.56 2002 WS6 Convertible LS1/4L60E/3.23 |
#18
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Quote:
If the rods are not adjusted right it will want to slip, not shift and just act like it's not going to last much longer. Also, luckily the 57 was the first year with the availability of wide range of rear end gears and posi. The are still highly sought after by the vintage drag racing guys. |
#19
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I have owned several of these older cars with that trans. The trans is a good trans BUT if the engine and/or trans needs rebuilding it gets very expensive quickly. I don't know if the trans overhaul kit is still made. If not I wouldn't want to have to depend on an NOS one.
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#20
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posi rear??
Quote:
and you can use the 57 axles if you change out the side gears, which (I think, maybe) are now being produced. |
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