[2bad]

I just got my car back on the road after a year of rebuilding my front suspension, engine, trans and having front body work done. I can't believe how much better my car rides and drives with the new polygraphite suspension kit I bought from PST. I'd highly recommend this kit to anyone wishing to improve handling and road feel.

[2bad]

I just got my car back on the road after a year of rebuilding my front suspension, engine, trans and having front body work done. I can't believe how much better my car rides and drives with the new polygraphite suspension kit I bought from PST. I'd highly recommend this kit to anyone wishing to improve handling and road feel.

[rannca]

Congratulations, glad to hear someone is moving along with their rebuild, I have a complete frontend rebuild kit setting in my garage from PST soon to be done on the car, really glad your pleased with the polygraphite bushing , I've heard some on the board speak of being to firm. I can't wait to get mine changed also have new front springs.

thumbs up to ya

[Richard Ohran]

What kind of car? And what parts came in your kit? I bought a kit from PST for my Mach I and was less than impressed about what I got. It isn't on the road yet, so maybe I'll be happier when I try it out. My complaints are that after I told them I wanted a kit to replace everything, there were no spring saddles in the kit, they sent me the wrong upper ball joints, the polygraphite bushings for the sway bars were the wrong size, and one of the tie rod ends came without the rubber grease cover kit. Furthermore, they sent me lower ball joint arms with the regular rubber bisquits installed and just tossed their polygraphite ones in the box, expecting me to know to switch them out, and throw the new rubber ones away. Same story with the sway bar kit. Naturally, I didn't figure that out until after I had the new control arms installed. I'll be damned before I'll take out those springs out again, so the polygraphite bisquits are the ones going in the s.hitter.

They made things right, more or less. They wanted me to send the upper ball joints back before they sent me the right ones, so I just said <expletive deleted>, and went down to Checker for the right ones. When I called about the sway bar brackets, they offered to send me the right ones, but they wanted me to send the other ones back. I told them that our shipping department was on strike here, and to forget it. I'd just get the right ones at Checker in regular rubber. Then, they decided to send them to me anyway. They hadn't charged me for the spring saddles, so I went to Dallas Mustang for them since the price was about half as much. Other than that, I'm just tickled with my dealings with PST.

Richard/Vegas

[MitchGM]

I know how you feel Richard. I've had probs with certain vendors. I bought a whole front end kit from PST, and everything was right on the money. After I completed the front end, the car handled like a Ferrari. Sorry to hear you've had a problem with them.

[Richard Ohran]

Yeah, well I guess nobody's perfect. If you're happy with your results, maybe I'll give them a chance on the Formulas. I suppose the thing to do is just figure out which parts are the polygraphite parts and get them from PST. The other parts like the tie rod ends and the ball joints are just standard parts. May as well get them locally. Probably a whole lot cheaper as well.

[72LeMConvt]

If you're gonna start buying it piecemeal, you've got to pay pretty close attention, because some of the "kits" make a better deal, depending on how you arrange the combination. It can be done, but you have to keep your pencil sharp - shipping, local sales tax, etc.

I did the same deal last October for my '72 and I went with Perf. Susp. Components, not PST. I went the full monty - ball joints, inner & outer tie rod ends, steering links, control arm bushings, springs, shocks, idler arm, huge front swaybar & bushings. All polygraphite. Everything was perfect, fit perfectly, and all showed up in 3 - 4 large boxes (springs and swaybars - pretty large). My only nit to pick is that they were pretty stingy with the silicone grease for use on the polygraphite goodies.

I finished the car in January, and have 4000 miles on it since - absolutely love the difference on the road and no reliability issues whatsoever.

Find the thread in the Suspension forum I started about removing the lower control arm bolts for a lot of tips and helpful comments....

Kirk

[2bad]

Richard
My car is a 68 Lemans. I got upper, lower ball joints, Upper lower control arm bushings, outter tie rod ends, sway bar bushings, strut rod bushings, and control arm bushings. I went and bought new springs, shocks, and inner tie rod ends too (from different fenders and the local O'Rielly's).
I'd agree with Richard. You can buy alot of the little pieces from your local parts store alot cheaper. My car does ride stiff, but that's alot better then the sloppy loose feel I had before.

[Richard Ohran]

One of these days I'd like to figure out if Polygraphite is really worth the extra effort. I know its great to have new suspension parts, but how much better than new rubber parts are new polygraphite parts. Someday I'd like to find someone who redid his entire suspension in conventional rubber parts, and then, not being satisfied, redid it again in Polygraphite parts and could actually tell the difference. For right now, I'm sure that anything redone on a suspension with 120k miles on it is going to be an improvement. As far as the extra cost of buying parts locally, I'll have to let the video poker machines help me out there. (Ok, that's a joke. I hope nobody takes me serious).

Richard/Vegas

[Ken K]

There are a couple of manufactures of polygraphite busihings, they are not much more expensive than the regular rubber bushings. As far as buying the whole front end package you are just paying for the convenience of not having to go out and buy the parts separtly. It's just like buying the $800.00 plus disc brake package that has used reconditioned parts in it, you are buying convenience.

[Richard Ohran]

Right, Ken, but how do we know that polygraphite parts are better than rubber ones? I know they advertise how great they are, but is the difference really significant? Will it be something that I can sense right now when I drive, or is it something that is going to last 200,000 miles instead of a 100,000 miles in a car I put 500 miles on in a year's time?

Richard/Vegas

[MitchGM]

Richard.. You will feel a big difference. And the first time you drive it, you will say to yourself, why you didn't do this before. They also hold up longer than regular rubber ones. I've had mine on my car since 1994, and it still drives like the first day I put them on.

[GP-K]

Last I checked, there is only one company which actually manufactures the urethane bushings (graphite impregnated or otherwise). Several sell those bushings in kits, packages or individually. Some of the re-sellers do also modify the bushings for custom applications.

In my experience with urethane bushings of any kind, here is what I have found:

For proper operation, with no squeaks they require annual maintenance (greasing with the supplied grease - this is a manufacturers recommended practice, even with the graphite impregnated bushings)

On occasion, even the graphite impregnated bushings squeak without the periodic disassembly and greasing. You may not hear it inside the car. Most of the cars I have run across with the graphite impregnated urethane drove fine on the street with little or no squeaking.

The urethane "bushings" will not deteriorate like rubber ones will. Temperature changes, ozone, and other atmospheric contaminants attack, and gradually destroy the rubber products used in tires, bushings, and most other rubber parts. First they start to become hard and brittle, and then they start to crack, and fall apart.

Actual wear with urethane is almost nil (if installed properly).

The car will handle better as a result of eliminating bushing deflection.

The car will ride somewhat more harshly as a result of above.

Essentially, during proper operation, the urethane bushing acts as a bearing with a little (very little) "give" for cushion, as opposed to the rubber bushings which do not allow rotation of the internal sleeve within the bushing body, and use the rubber's ability to deform and return to it's original state to provide suspension location, and cushioning. Urethane bushings do not (and can not) allow this give and twisting within the bushing material, so the suspension forces the internal sleeve to pivot within the urethane, and occasionally, the urethane bushing will also pivot within the bushing shell.

It is rubber's ability to deform which gives it both the softer ride characteristics, and less precise suspension control and feel(because of the deflection) under hard driving conditions.

I disassemble the front and rear suspensions of my autocross car annually, and grease them with the recommended silicone based grease. This ensures that the urethane continues to act as a bearing, and does not seize, then release. This process of seizing and releasing causes micro tears in the urethane, and that action is what causes the squeaking. In theory, the graphite impregnated bushings release some of the graphite to act as a "lubricant" during this process, thus making the action more smooth, and less squeaky.

The procedure of disassembly and re-greasing takes me the better part of one full day on the autocross car (with practice). This is the trade-off I am willing to accept to keep the suspension operation smooth. Squeaks would not bother me (in that car), but the potential for binding or sudden micro changes in the suspension movement is not optimal for racing.

I have not re-done the suspension on my GP yet, but I have considered nyliner bushing replacements, rubber bushings, and the graphite impregnated urethane. Herb Adams recommends the nyliner type bearings or spherical bearings for high performance or racing uses, and does not like urethane because of its properties as mentioned earlier.
Nyliners are not legal for my class in SCCA solo II racing, and not readily available for my autocross car, so I use what I consider the next best thing. Nyliners are available off the shelf for most F body applications (maybe all of them). I would have to make custom ones for some of the GP's bushings, were I to choose them for that car. The Nyliners also require annual (or more often) maintenance, but they have a zerk fitting, and obviously it is easier to get the grease gun out than it is to disassemble the suspension.

Have fun.....

K.

[This message has been edited by GP-K (edited 05-04-2001).]

[Richard Ohran]

OK, I'm convinced. I'll even go back and redo the control arms on the Mach I so I can get the polygraphite bushings installed there. I can't wait to see how the Formula drives. Right now I feel like I'm all over the road.

Richard/Vegas

[Will]

Richard, you will love how your Formula handles. I did my '72 with full poly bushings and weld-in subframe connectors, plus added TA swayabars. With HO Racing front springs and WS6 rear springs the ride is pretty hard, but the handling... Well, let's just say that I can easily achieve freeway speeds on cloverleaf interchanges before having to merge with traffic.

I think I'll try the Global West "Del-a-Lum" bushings next. They're basically what GP-K is calling a "nyliner." Same concept.

-Will

[Ed Neasham]

What about polyurethane body biskets (the doughnuts between he frame and the body). When I put the body back on the frame, is it worth it to go poly? If so does anybody make them for a GTO?

Ed

[Richard Ohran]

I gotta do something like that, Will. Right now I feel really loose. Who did you get the sub-frame connectors from? And, did you buy the T/A sway bars new or from a junkyard?

Richard/Vegas

[MitchGM]

I just finished my subframe poly bushings on Friday. I can tell you it's a BIG difference. I thought it was hooking up before. Flex really down to minimal.

[Will]

Richard,

Bought the entire kit from PST. However, I'd shop around if I was you. There are only two manufacturers of graphite impregnated polyurethane ("polygraphite") bushings for our cars - Prothane and Energy Suspension. Anyone you buy a kit from will be selling you a kit by one of these two manufacturers.

Got my swaybars through an add on this site. It's fairly easy to find TA swaybars at j-yards, through Pontiac clubs, or through the Pontiac websites for much cheaper than you could buy them new for.

-Will

[Will]

Richard,

Forgot to mention - the subframe connectors came from Global West. Very nice pieces, much better than the ones from Competition Engineering. Round tubes, extend from the rear of the subframe to the molded unibody frame rails where they go up over the rear axle. No repositioning of anything to make them fit.

-Will