[zeebo]

they had a class action lawsuit on the plastic intakes leaking on the 3800 engines, and when i looked my car up, the supercharged cars were excluded from the rebate, but im guessing since they didnt have the leak issue, they didnt get the rebate...ill look for the website...the L36 engines were covered, the L67 ones were not.


http://www.topclassactions.com/lawsu...ngine-coolant/

[Ben M.]

I don't think people here are against American branded cars so much as if we're going to be rolling the dice on a used car for the missus, we'd rather have as much going for us as possible. American branded cars can run forever, but the salvage yards out here are full of them that haven't made it due to design flaws or lack of maintenance. Sure you'll find foreign branded cars there as well, but when you compare the amount of 200k+ mile cars still on the road you'll find the brands stacked towards Honda and Toyota rather than GM, Ford, or Dodge. This doesn't mean you'll get a Honda and automatically go 150k miles without trouble or if you buy a Buick you'll automatically be in for failure or major issues within 4-5 months. Honda and Toyota tend to fare better when the maintenance is slightly neglected compared to the GM cars (see the 3800 series head\intake gasket issues) and that reassures people and makes them feel more secure.

A late 90's or early 2000's GM product if it's been maintained and taken care of can be a great car for a great bargain - a friend of mine on this forum picked up a '97 or '98 Olds 88 for like $400 and other than some checking in the paint it's been dead nuts reliable with only a few maintenance wear items you'd expect to be needed on a 15 year old car like plug wires and fluids service. AC blows cold and the car has great power and fuel economy, I'm actually kind of jealous. He already did the intake and gaskets for it, so he knows it's in good shape.

[justincampbell]

How about a '98 Honda Accord w/ a 5spd, 112k? Or an '02 Grand Am w/the 2.2 Ecotec, 118k?

[Sirrotica]

Originally Posted by zeebo

they had a class action lawsuit on the plastic intakes leaking on the 3800 engines, and when i looked my car up, the supercharged cars were excluded from the rebate, but im guessing since they didnt have the leak issue, they didnt get the rebate...ill look for the website...the L36 engines were covered, the L67 ones were not.


http://www.topclassactions.com/lawsu...ngine-coolant/

We're talking about 2 separate possible leaking points here. Plastic upper intakes are a different matter entirely than the composite core lower intake gaskets. Only the NA engines had the upper plastic intake early in the run of series II engines, both engines had the lower intake gaskets with the composite cores which also leaked coolant. GM changed to aluminum parts for the upper intake in the late 90s. The class action was only for the upper intake manifold leak which showed up more frequently and usually at lower mileage than the lower intake gasket malfunction. Dex Cool incompatibility with plastic parts long term is blamed for both problems from what I've read online. There is also the matter of plastic elbows which tend to get brittle and leak externally.

As is evident on your own car the lower intake gaskets do not always fail, but if you watch this video you'll see eventually they do fail on either engine. The engine in the video has only 60,000 on it and the gaskets are starting to fail. Anyone that is replacing the upper plastic intake or gaskets would do well to also replace the lower gaskets at the same time in the NA 3800, or if it's a supercharged engine replace the lower ones as a safe guard for the future.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aP8Ge68MF9M

BTW, as the maker of the video states the Fel Pros are made with composite cores same as the OE ones are. The improved aluminum core ones come from GM dealers at least at the time the video was made which appears to be about 3 years ago.

[Old Blue 66]

Found this one in my Facebook feed today... Dont know the owner

1998 GTP Daytona 500 Pacecar #84 of 1500. 125,000 miles. Nice car, clean like new interior. New waterpump, plugs and brakes. Has a tear in front bumper by right driving light and acouple small dents. Asking $3850 obo.
Elwood, IN.

If you wnat information, I could somehow get you two in touch.

[justincampbell]

I am really hoping to not drive more than about two hours away to find a vehicle.

I have been considering putting a used transmission in the Hyundai($950 installed) and hoping to get enough more miles out of it to justify the $ spent. Would also need a drive axle($60). Then, last night I found some info that said the car should have had the timing belt and related parts($600 or so all done, $200 or so just for parts) at either 60k or 90k. The car has 115k on it now.

[455Grandville]

Originally Posted by justincampbell

455Grandville
I must've been super lucky then. I had an '87 Tbird with a 3.8 in high school. That car had 186k+ when I wrecked it and the only engine trouble it ever had was an ignition module?. Trust me, I tested the durability of that car nearly every time I was behind the wheel. Kind of makes one wonder how we survived being teenagers.

I believe you.

Strange thing is the 80's 3.8 didn't seem to have those issues; the 90's did. But, with so few 80's cars left on the road I didn't think that exception would apply when I said that.

I helped put a head gasket on a 90's Mustang with a 3.8 and it turned out they had three different head gaskets for that year alone. Auto parts guy said they kept redesigning them due to breakage.

[jeffgoss]

I bought a 98 Honda Civic LX 5 speed with 246,000 miles on it for $500 from my neighbor who recently retired.

I put a cap and rotor on it for a random no-start condition and it had been super reliable so far. Now at 256,000 miles, it still gets 35 mpg. I just drive it locally, but it has been great!

[justincampbell]

Here is what I have found within 2.5hrs of me that is in my price range:

'99 Corolla 103k
'02 Grand Am w/EcoTec engine 118k
'02 Taurus wagon 53k
'04 Taurus 83k
'03 Taurus 90k

These are all priced between $3000-$4400 OBO

[Old Blue 66]

Originally Posted by justincampbell

Here is what I have found within 2.5hrs of me that is in my price range:

'99 Corolla 103k
'02 Grand Am w/EcoTec engine 118k
'02 Taurus wagon 53k
'04 Taurus 83k
'03 Taurus 90k

These are all priced between $3000-$4400 OBO

You'll get mixed reviews from people here but if the Taurus checked out, I'd go that route. Not uncommon for a Taurus to get 200,000 miles.

[zeebo]

Originally Posted by Sirrotica

We're talking about 2 separate possible leaking points here. Plastic upper intakes are a different matter entirely than the composite core lower intake gaskets. Only the NA engines had the upper plastic intake early in the run of series II engines, both engines had the lower intake gaskets with the composite cores which also leaked coolant. GM changed to aluminum parts for the upper intake in the late 90s. The class action was only for the upper intake manifold leak which showed up more frequently and usually at lower mileage than the lower intake gasket malfunction. Dex Cool incompatibility with plastic parts long term is blamed for both problems from what I've read online. There is also the matter of plastic elbows which tend to get brittle and leak externally.

As is evident on your own car the lower intake gaskets do not always fail, but if you watch this video you'll see eventually they do fail on either engine. The engine in the video has only 60,000 on it and the gaskets are starting to fail. Anyone that is replacing the upper plastic intake or gaskets would do well to also replace the lower gaskets at the same time in the NA 3800, or if it's a supercharged engine replace the lower ones as a safe guard for the future.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aP8Ge68MF9M

BTW, as the maker of the video states the Fel Pros are made with composite cores same as the OE ones are. The improved aluminum core ones come from GM dealers at least at the time the video was made which appears to be about 3 years ago.

ahh..i see now what you are talking about..the video made sense to me...yeah, i guess i have been lucky i havent had any coolant leak issues on the intake then, and i know about the plastic coolant elbows failing as well..i sure hope she dont die on me now..lol..other than that tho, that engine has been great to me.

[b-man]

Originally Posted by justincampbell

Here is what I have found within 2.5hrs of me that is in my price range:

'99 Corolla 103k
'02 Grand Am w/EcoTec engine 118k
'02 Taurus wagon 53k
'04 Taurus 83k
'03 Taurus 90k

These are all priced between $3000-$4400 OBO

I'd get the '99 Corolla.

[Ben M.]

Originally Posted by b-man

I'd get the '99 Corolla.

Agreed. Easy maintenance car.

The wife had a 2005 Sunfire with the Ecotec engine. Let's just say that while it had plenty of get up and go and got almost 40MPG, it's an interference engine and you better make sure the oil filters and changes haven't been neglected or you lose the timing chain tension and wipe the head out. Stupid car cost me a LOT to get rid of, but her mom loves it after we fixed it.

[justincampbell]

I was unsure about the EcoTec because of the mileage. I had an '03 Cavalier with the EcoTec and a 5spd. The worst I ever averaged was 42mpg. However, I sold that car when we moved to the city. It had 66k on it at the time so I had no idea about longevity for that engine.

[justincampbell]

How about a 2000 Ford Contour w/V6, 99k? This came up for sale today right here in town.

[Formulabruce]

Originally Posted by justincampbell

I am really hoping to not drive more than about two hours away to find a vehicle.

I have been considering putting a used transmission in the Hyundai($950 installed) and hoping to get enough more miles out of it to justify the $ spent. Would also need a drive axle($60). Then, last night I found some info that said the car should have had the timing belt and related parts($600 or so all done, $200 or so just for parts) at either 60k or 90k. The car has 115k on it now.

Fix it, its an entity you KNOW
Drive axle it easy, and tranny out, its part of the job just about, get the timining belt done, make sure the tranny torque converter is drained and fluid replaced on the replacement unit.
That car should go 175K once this is done...and maintained correctly.

[Old Blue 66]

Originally Posted by justincampbell

How about a 2000 Ford Contour w/V6, 99k? This came up for sale today right here in town.

I sold Fords back in the 90's. Those things had tons of problems. Probably one of the worst used cars.

[455Grandville]

Originally Posted by justincampbell

Here is what I have found within 2.5hrs of me that is in my price range:

'99 Corolla 103k
'02 Grand Am w/EcoTec engine 118k
'02 Taurus wagon 53k
'04 Taurus 83k
'03 Taurus 90k

These are all priced between $3000-$4400 OBO

Taurus with the pushrod "Vulcan" 3.0 V6, worth looking into. That's probably the most durable modern day engine around. DOHC 3.0 V6 - I dunno.

Originally Posted by justincampbell

How about a 2000 Ford Contour w/V6, 99k? This came up for sale today right here in town.

Later one like that might be OK, but still not a safe bet.

[455Grandville]

Originally Posted by zeebo

ahh..i see now what you are talking about..the video made sense to me...yeah, i guess i have been lucky i havent had any coolant leak issues on the intake then, and i know about the plastic coolant elbows failing as well..i sure hope she dont die on me now..lol..other than that tho, that engine has been great to me.

When I part owned a machine shop we fixed several with a plastic welder that worked well. You buy 'em on Amazon for about a c-note.

[ck67goat]

Originally Posted by zeebo

actually, the supercharged 3800 cars have aluminum intakes, and do not suffer the coolant leakage issue as the na cars do..i have a 2001 buick park avenue with the 3800sc and it has been bulletproof...bought it at 60k miles and now has 230k on it and still going strong..(but i also take care of it) just had to do a cat conv. replacement as it was rattling and 75% plugged..after the new one, the car runs like it has 2 extra cylinders.. my 2 cents for getting a decent car is buy a car that old people have owned---they are easy on their stuff, and can afford to get them repaired--you dont want to buy a car like a mustang from a 25 yr old kid...if you know what i mean..


lotsa great running gm 3800 cars out there--pay cash for a clean used one and enjoy it for 10 yrs. i see no sense in spending $40,000 on a new ride. tho i would have some $ set aside for repairs...for any used car you choose to buy. the trick is is that you have to be able to afford the upkeep--most people can afford the monthly payment, just like on a house, but they cant afford the upkeep.

I can attest that the coolant leaks are rare - to be safe though, I switched from Dex to the standard green coolant since some gearheads believed that Dex was the cuprit. Also changed the LIM gasket when switching away from Dex and never a problem. My first Bonnie ran as strong at 145k miles as when new. The 2nd did need an engine swap due to a spun bearing, but to admit, I had souped it up. I now have an L36 that is slightly souped up and run 13's at the track...