[roflo619]

I've searched the forums for this and got half of my answer.

My 1965 Pontiac Catalina is an 8-lug car. I'm wanting to switch over to 5-lug. I understand that all I would need are drums for the rear, but I would need the drums AND hubs for the front.

My parts researched quickly showed me that I could get new drums front and back, but hubs are nowhere to be found unless I found a donor car. I spoke with a classic Pontiac parts specific business owner who had a set of front hubs and drums for sale for $300.

Now, I had already purchased new front and rear drums thinking I could just buy the hubs by themselves BUT the parts guy told me they don't sell hubs all by themselves because they are a "1-piece" unit. They had many stories about wheels coming off at highway speeds, etc. when the hubs were pressed off of the original drums and pressed back on new drums, and so they only sell them as the hub and drum as a unit. I asked what would happen to all these classic Pontiac owners who have worn drums and need a replacement drum but the hubs were good? I was told that they would go to people like him to buy "1-piece" hub and drum units off a donor car.

Huh??? What makes the Pontiac hub and drum so special that they can't be pressed on and off like so many other cars of that era without having the danger of a wheel coming off? Or was he just trying to get me to buy his set for $300?

#1 Does anyone sell new hubs without having to go through the trouble of finding a donor car?

#2 If I HAVE to source the hubs from a donor car, can I safely use those hubs on the new front drums that I bought from OPGI by taking them to a machine shop and having them press them on?

#3 What other years/makes/models of cars can I try to source the hubs from? Can I grab them from any other B-body car?

[Heybuck]

Someone is trying to pull your pants down mate.

ALL you need is new (or good secondhand) drums front and rear.

The hubs are integral to the front drum. Uses the same bearings as your 8 lugs.

You will have to buy new wheels though.

ian

[roflo619]

Originally Posted by Heybuck

Someone is trying to pull your pants down mate.



ALL you need is new (or good secondhand) drums front and rear.



The hubs are integral to the front drum. Uses the same bearings as your 8 lugs.



You will have to buy new wheels though.



ian

So my current hubs can be pressed out of my 8-lug drums?!? I wonder why this was never told to me by these Pontiac "experts".

This is good news! I would have a reputable machine shop press the hubs off and then install them on my new drums. But what exactly will keep the hub on the drum when they're pressed back together? Something with the studs? The clearance between the center of the drum and the hub?

And I already have a set of 5x5 wheels waiting.

[Heybuck]

Originally Posted by roflo619

So my current hubs can be pressed out of my 8-lug drums?!? I wonder why this was never told to me by these Pontiac "experts".

This is good news! I would have a reputable machine shop press the hubs off and then install them on my new drums. But what exactly will keep the hub on the drum when they're pressed back together? Something with the studs? The clearance between the center of the drum and the hub?

And I already have a set of 5x5 wheels waiting.

No, you are not understanding this. You do NOT have to press anything out. The hub is already cast into the 5 lug drum.

You don't have to go to any machine shop unless you need the drums turning out

An easier explanation is, just take off the front 8 lug brake drum. Look at the hub. The 5 lug drum looks EXACTLY the same inside. Just put the new bearings (if you are replacing the bearings), into your 5 lug drum and slide it over the spindle.

Follow????

[Stuart]

Originally Posted by roflo619

Now, I had already purchased new front and rear drums thinking I could just buy the hubs by themselves BUT the parts guy told me they don't sell hubs all by themselves because they are a "1-piece" unit.

You were able to buy new front drums without hubs? I've never seen that before.

[Engine-Ear]

...I would call one of the independent guys out West that sell and stand behind quality used Pontiac parts. (There are more than a few of 'em)

Source a pair of fronts (hubs, studs, lug nuts and drums themselves) and rear drums from a '65-'66 (maybe thru '68, I'm not certain). Use a qualified shop to turn the friction surface as needed then install some new inner and outer bearings/races and grease seals.

To that end, I would also return the NEW (probably chinese-made (boo!)) drums you bought from the catalog.

[tharkun8]

One other option is to convert to front disc brakes.. if you are getting into
changing hubs now would be a good time to consider the swap.

Scarebird ( member here ) has a business selling the caliper brackets and then
giving you parts lists of existing stuff to buy off the shelf to finish the job.

For the fronts on your car you could buy the front disc brake hubs for
a 1977 Safari SW -MUST BE SW hubs- still 5x5 bolt pattern. Im doing this swap on my 66 Ventura and will
end up doing the same mods to my other vehicles as I restore them.

I love the 8-lug look but not enough to keep drum brakes on cars that will
be driven a lot. I live in CO though with a lot of mountainous,hilly driving
at high speeds.. 4 wheel drums just arent worth it to me.. (same with
a single master Cyl -swapping to duals -- but thats a different topic)

My only car with 8 lugs is the 65 2+2 and I'll have to decide when I get to
that one if I want it to be a show car ( Stock- seldom driven- so keeping 8lugs ) or making it a
driver ( keep 8 lug setup with car but change to 5x5 Disc/Drum setup)

Good Luck

John

[roflo619]

Originally Posted by Heybuck

No, you are not understanding this. You do NOT have to press anything out. The hub is already cast into the 5 lug drum.

You don't have to go to any machine shop unless you need the drums turning out

An easier explanation is, just take off the front 8 lug brake drum. Look at the hub. The 5 lug drum looks EXACTLY the same inside. Just put the new bearings (if you are replacing the bearings), into your 5 lug drum and slide it over the spindle.

Follow????

Thanks for your help. I did understand what you're saying, but maybe you misunderstood what I had.

I just have new front drums WITHOUT hubs. And new rear drums.

I've called my local Pontiac guys and no one has donor front drums with hubs. One guy did, but someone beat me to it by hours.

If you're telling me that my 8-lug drum hubs are the same as the 5-lug drum hubs, couldn't I get my current hubs pressed out so that I can put them on my new 5-lug drums?

[roflo619]

Originally Posted by Stuart

You were able to buy new front drums without hubs? I've never seen that before.

Ames and OPGI sell them that way. No one sells the hubs.

[roflo619]

Originally Posted by tharkun8

One other option is to convert to front disc brakes.. if you are getting into
changing hubs now would be a good time to consider the swap.

Scarebird ( member here ) has a business selling the caliper brackets and then
giving you parts lists of existing stuff to buy off the shelf to finish the job.

For the fronts on your car you could buy the front disc brake hubs for
a 1977 Safari SW -MUST BE SW hubs- still 5x5 bolt pattern. Im doing this swap on my 66 Ventura and will
end up doing the same mods to my other vehicles as I restore them.

I love the 8-lug look but not enough to keep drum brakes on cars that will
be driven a lot. I live in CO though with a lot of mountainous,hilly driving
at high speeds.. 4 wheel drums just arent worth it to me.. (same with
a single master Cyl -swapping to duals -- but thats a different topic)

My only car with 8 lugs is the 65 2+2 and I'll have to decide when I get to
that one if I want it to be a show car ( Stock- seldom driven- so keeping 8lugs ) or making it a
driver ( keep 8 lug setup with car but change to 5x5 Disc/Drum setup)

Good Luck

John

I contacted him already, but 14" wheels won't clear, and that's what I'm trying to mount on.

Will the Safari setup for 14" wheels? And is that a direct bolt on for a 65 Catalina?

[tharkun8]

Originally Posted by roflo619

I contacted him already, but 14" wheels won't clear, and that's what I'm trying to mount on.

Will the Safari setup for 14" wheels? And is that a direct bolt on for a 65 Catalina?

No, sorry.. missed the part about wanting to keep 14s.. Most disc brake
conversions would force 15s at least.. I do recall hearing about some kind
of stock setup that worked with 14s but I had already committed to 15s myself
so I didnt follow up on it. A search on here for 14" disc brake setup might
show something.. might also be an A body only option.. I cant recall.

I presume you have a set of 14" steelies or something ? obviously removing
the 8 lug drums means you cant use the stock 8 lug wheels.. so you would
have to use a different set of wheels.

14" wheels I think were phased out after 67-68 ? so anything after 70 would already have 15s.. so the 77 Safari would have had 15s stock.

14s in themselves are getting problematic these days as many 14" tire sizes are being
discontinued and many Darksiders are moving to 15s as a result. I found a set of 15" steelies
in a local yard on a 1978 Olds 98 Regency.. couldnt believe a car that old was in the local Pull n Pay even briefly.
I snagged the wheels and the Qjet off of it and both are going on my 66 Ventura.


John

[mechanickeith]

Front drums for 5 lug are available. It takes a pro. brake shop to install them. You have to cut off all the studs & press them out of the hub to get the drum off. Then new drums are installed with new studs. Then the studs are swedged onto the drum to hold everything tight. Then the drum is turned to true everything up.

[cheesepocket]

Interesting subject to me, since I'm taking off my replacement 5-lug setup front and rear and going back to my original 8-lugs (with re-lined drums and 15" 8-lugs).
I don't recall any messing around when I converted to 5-lugs, front and rear.

[cheesepocket]

I should point out that if you want to wait 2 months I'd sell you my front drum/hub assemblies in good shape. Can't remove them before I have my 8-lug setup all done and mounted.

[roflo619]

Originally Posted by mechanickeith

Front drums for 5 lug are available. It takes a pro. brake shop to install them. You have to cut off all the studs & press them out of the hub to get the drum off. Then new drums are installed with new studs. Then the studs are swedged onto the drum to hold everything tight. Then the drum is turned to true everything up.

This is exactly what I was needing/wanting/hoping to hear! Thank you! Now to find a machine/brake shop that can do this for me the right way! ;-)

[roflo619]

Originally Posted by cheesepocket

Interesting subject to me, since I'm taking off my replacement 5-lug setup front and rear and going back to my original 8-lugs (with re-lined drums and 15" 8-lugs).
I don't recall any messing around when I converted to 5-lugs, front and rear.

Really? Because so far for me, it's been a pain. Everyone has different answers and opinions.

I'm wondering if your car had previously had the front drums changed out, and thus making it easy for you to just throw 5-lug drums on the front?

[Poncho60]

Just curious....are you having problems with the linings going bad on the 8-lugs or just don't care for them? If you want to keep w the 14 inch tire size seems like it would be simpler to just keep the 8-lugs. Otherwise as has been stated, for the fronts all you would have to do is find a useable front hub & drum assemblies, get the bearings and braking surface squared away and install them....no real mysteries there.

[tom s]

PM sent

[roflo619]

Originally Posted by Poncho60

Just curious....are you having problems with the linings going bad on the 8-lugs or just don't care for them? If you want to keep w the 14 inch tire size seems like it would be simpler to just keep the 8-lugs. Otherwise as has been stated, for the fronts all you would have to do is find a useable front hub & drum assemblies, get the bearings and braking surface squared away and install them....no real mysteries there.

No problems with the 8-lug wheels at all. Just not the style of car I'm going for and just making my car my own is all.

I knew what was needed to make the switch, but it was just getting to that point without having to depend on old parts that may not be available for a long time. That was the "mystery".

I know it probably seems like I'm being a little impatient, but I'm trying to get this "makeover" completed for a show coming up.

New drums are readily available, and I have the front hubs I need already on my car. I just needed confirmation that what I thought I could do to make this swap happen can actually happen.

[roflo619]

Originally Posted by tom s

PM sent

Thanks. I'm gonna try to find a place more local, but he is definitely a viable option for me if I don't have any reputable locals.