[Sharkfin]

I am in the midst of getting a 1959 Catalina that needs, among other things, one of the rocker studs replaced. I'm not too familiar with this area of auto work, but ready to learn - the seller tells me these early ones are a press-in type stud instead of the later screw-in type, and one of them has pulled out. (Nothing exotic - it's a stock 2-barrel 389.)

The seller told me these are available through Jegs and some other place I can't remember... I haven't spent any time on the phone yet, but a look through the websites of Jegs, CPR, Ames, etc. hasn't turned up anything. I'd like to get the part coming so I can be ready to install it as soon as I take possession of the car. Any suggestions on where to find one? Will an original piece replace it okay, or will a slightly oversize piece be required?

Thanks, Doug

[tom s]

the studs are hollow to oil the rockers.You will have a difficult time finding them.Might check with Kanter.Also might need a oversize if the factory studs got pulled for some reason.Tom

[starchief1959]

I just pulled one from a junkyard when I needed one. Have never had a problem with it.

[Sharkfin]

Thanks for the input so far. It looks like I've found one (NOS) through California Pontiac Restoration. The guy at CPR was sure it was one of the early 389 studs, but there was no part number so we're not sure if it's the exact replacement or one of the slight oversize ones listed in my parts book. For what it's worth, my '60 Master book shows it in group 0.429, P/N 518060 - standard and P/N 520165 - .003 oversize. Also shows that it fits 1956-1960.

Please keep posting, I can use all the help I can get. I forgot to mention I also have a 1960 parts car with a seized but otherwise intact 389 from which I could pirate some parts.

If I decide to keep the new one as a spare and pull one off the parts car, what's the best way to remove one of these? And once one has worked its way out of the head, should the replacement be put in with lock-tite or something else done to try to keep it from happening again? (That is, if no oversize is available, will that work well enough?)

Thanks again, Doug

[CATBIRD]

SHARKFIN....THERE ISN'T ANY FORM OF GLUE OR LOCKTITE THAT WILL HOLD THE STUD IN PLACE UNDER THE PRESSURE OF THE SPRING AND PUSHROD. BACK IN THE DAY THAT THESE CARS WERE RACED, SEVERAL AFTERMARKET SPEED EQUIPMENT MANUFACTURES MADE SCREW IN STUD KITS FOR THEM. I'VE GOT A SET, BUT HAVEN'T USED THEM. WHO RACES THESE CARS NOW ANYWAY? IN ANY EVENT, THE HEADS NEED TO BE MACHINED TO EXCEPT THEM. THE ALTERNATIVE WAS TO DRILL THROUGH THE BOSS AND STUD, AND PIN THEM TOGETHER. THIS ALSO REQUIRES A MACHINE SHOP TO DO IT RIGHT. NOT A JOB FOR YOUR PORTABLE ELECTRIC DRILL. THE STUD BOSS NEEDS TO BE CHECKED FOR CRACKS AND/OR MISSING CHUNKS, AS THE HEAD MIGHT BE BEYOND REPAIR. I HOPE NOT......JOHN

[Sharkfin]

Thanks, John - a few more questions for you or anyone else...

Summit Racing is the other place I was told to check. It looks like Summit and Jegs both have screw-in stud kits to fit Pontiac V8's - are these comparable to the set you have, John?

I'm a bit of a stickler for originality, but I try not to be stubborn when it comes to working around inferior design elements. Would it be advisable to just replace all of the rocker studs with the screw-in type? Would this still maintain a reasonably OEM appearance while upgrading to a more sturdy setup? What should I expect for a ballpark cost to have the machining done to accept screw-in studs? Or should I just try to find a good used head with intact studs?

Sorry for adding more questions to the mix, I just hope some of you guys enjoy putting together these little puzzles as much as I do.

Thanks, Doug

[tom s]

FYI,if you do modern screwin studs you will need to change all your rocker arms to pushrod oiling.I dont know of any hollow screwin studs being made today.Tom

[Sharkfin]

Another suggestion that has been made is to replace the press-in stud using sleeve retainer (the compound used to make cylinder sleeves adhere to an aluminum engine block.) Depending on how it looks, I may start with that option and see how it goes, moving up the chain of more difficult solutions as the lesser ones fail.

What about the heads from my '60 parts car? I have heard that despite all the mechanical uniformity between '59 and '60, there were some differences in the cylinder heads - would they fit / would they work?

[Bill Hanlon]

59 heads use "reverse cooling" (output of water pump enters heads first while 60 uses conventional cooling path where water pump enters the block first, so you would have to swap at least the timing cover along with the heads.

[Jack Gifford]

Originally Posted by Bill Hanlon

... so you would have to swap at least the timing cover along with the heads.

Couldn't he just put the water distribution tubes from his '59 heads into the '60 heads?

[Bill Hanlon]

Originally Posted by pontiac jack

Couldn't he just put the water distribution tubes from his '59 heads into the '60 heads?

Don't know that they would snake in there. Maybe someone should try. I have ONE tube from a '58, Passenger's side if I remember correctly. Anyone have a '60 head they's like to try it on?

[CATBIRD]

MY ORIGINAL 1959 BLOCK HAS 1960 HEADS ON IT, FOR WHAT REASON I DON'T KNOW! WHOEVER DID IT WAS SMART ENOUGH TO PUT THE TUBES BACK INTO THEM. THE BOLT HOLES FOR THE ELBOWS SHOULD ALREADY BE THERE, AS THEY ARE USED FOR THE GROUND STRAPS AT THE REAR. AT LEAST MINE WERE. MY UNDERSTANDING IS THAT THE TUBES CAUSED A RESTRICTION IN THE WATER FLOW AND DIRECTED (SQUIRTED) IT ONTO THE EXHAUST VALVE GUIDE AREA. KIND OF LIKE HOLDING YOUR THUMB ON THE END OR A GARDEN HOSE. HAS ANYONE RAN A 1959 OR EARLIER ENGINE WITHOUT THEM WITHOUT A PROBLEM? NOT 100% CONVINCED THEY ARE NEEDED, BUT I'M NOT GOING TO TRY! BACK TO THE ORIGINAL PROBLEM....IF I WERE IN THE SAME SITUATION, I WOULD BITE THE BULLET AND PULL THE HEADS AND HAVE THEM GONE OVER BY A GOOD SHOP. IF THEY CHECK OUT, HAVE THEM OVERHAULED AND PIN THE STUDS WHILE AT IT. GOOD TIME FOR HARDENED SEATS ALSO. AS FOR ORIGINALITY, A 59 HEAD IS A 59 HEAD EXCEPT FOR THE DATE CODES, AND WHO'S GOING TO LOOK FOR THEM ANYWAY. THE PINS WILL BE HIDDEN BY THE VALVE COVERS. I DON'T THINK THE SUMMIT STUDS WOULD BE THE HOLLOW ONES NEEDED FOR PRE-1964 HEADS. HOPE THIS HELPS.......JOHN

[Jeff Hamlin]

Have you tryed Egge?

[Bill Hanlon]

Originally Posted by CATBIRD

HAS ANYONE RAN A 1959 OR EARLIER ENGINE WITHOUT THEM WITHOUT A PROBLEM? NOT 100% CONVINCED THEY ARE NEEDED, BUT I'M NOT GOING TO TRY!

List member 58 GMC V8 engine was rebuilt without the tubes. He had big time cooling problems and has just recently found a set of tubes. Once he gets them installed maybe he'll let us know it they solved his problem. What say Gary?

[engineer]

Hmmm, if you just replaced the one pulled out hollow stud with a screw in solid stud, could you then get by with just that one solid pushrod being replaced with one hollow pushrod? Therefore oiling is maintained and stud is repaired by tapping and threading for that one valve.

[Jack Gifford]

'57 & later Pontiac pushrods ARE hollow (maybe '55-56 also, but I'm not sure). What's needed is a rocker arm with an oil hole at the pushrod end, to dribble oil down to the pivot ball. If the '59 rocker dimensions are the same as '58 & earlier (I'm pretty sure they are), then a SBC rocker arm (with a hole) can be used. Yes, just changing that one stud to screw-in might be worth considering.

[Safari Larry]

Regarding the interchangeability of heads -- as I understand it. 1955 through 1960 heads are interchangeable. You should use the distributing tubes in the heads if they are being installed on a reverse flow block (1955-59). You should NOT use the distributing tubes if the heads are being installed on a 1960 block. Valve size and port sizes are the same for 1957 through 1960. 1955-56 valves and ports are smaller. I ran onto a guy with a 60 Pontiac with original head on one side and 57 head on other side (with distributing tube removed). He had run this configuration for some time without any problem (but I wouldn't recommend it without checking combustion chamber volume). I have 57 heads on my 60 engine but have yet to run it.

The water distributing tubes are interchangeable within heads 1955-56 and 1957-60.

The water distributing tubes distribute cooling water evenly along the length of the head and direct the cooled water directly onto the valve seat area (this is called "gusher valve cooling"). Without the distributing tube, water will be hot by the time it gets to the rear of engine, likely resulting in problems in rear heads/valves and maybe cylinders. Not good!

For the 1960 engine, cooling water enters the heads in the reverse direction, from the engine block. The distributing tubes would restrict the proper circulation of water.

For more exciting details, go to www.PontiacSafari.com, click on "Pontiac Garage", and click on "Pontiac Engine Cooling".

[Bill Hanlon]

I case anyone cares I measured the length of a '58 water distribution tube vs. the depth of the cavity it fits in and found that it goes to about 1/8" of the bottom of the cavity. So there should be some flow out the far end of the tube.