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Old 09-16-2021, 06:57 PM
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Default Hey all! first post, it will be a long one....Sorry in advance!

Hi,

Name is Dave, I own a marine business in Ottawa, ON Canada. Been working on cars since I could walk. I am a Licensed marine tech, and auto tech, started working on Mercury outboards when I was around 13 years old, then moved onto automotive cert, and got my 310A auto tech in 93 in Ontario. Been at it ever since...

I have 2 Lemans Sports...both 1971, both T41 Endura ( One is not original) PHS docs the first car as a nordic silver, black cordova roof, 350 2bbl, but with console (no mention of buckets) It has been hacked through the years, and for some reason is now a shift on the column bench seat, will explain later, but bought it this way. this was one of the 2013 Carrie Movie cars...man was it butchered to make the movie....

#2 is a lucernce blue 400 (300hp wk) 4 spd, ac, t41, manual drum brakes, trunk light, sport steering wheel, ivory interior (62) sold new 45 minutes from my door, and I got the protecto plate and original owners manual. this one I am restoring.

Why? So when I was a kid my dad had a 72 Lemans Sport, he was a rebel...lol! when he finely settled down and got a real job around 79, I was 10 or 11, he had to drive 30 or so minutes to work everyday....the lemans got traded for a datsun 4 door B510....UGH!!! I was 10, what could I do? I swore that one day I would own and restore one....a lemans that is....

Dad passed in 2019, after a long battle with Cancer, he fought long and hard, and I was with him every step of the way. miss him greatly. Now on the to the resto's it all started in 2021.

This blue 71 was meant to be or the seller was shooting me a line....I called after seeing the ad at 8 in the morning. I told the seller I would be there within 45 minutes of closing my shop door, I was, 4 gear car,,,locally....had to be mine. He had a few offers throughout the day, but hung on as I was the first caller. (taking him at his word) I till was able to dicker.

The 400 was (is) (has) been swapped for a mysterious 488988 block with 6x-8 heads both 75 date stamped. I finally found the 350 stamped in the drivers side front of the block (confusing identification process) I cannot read the stamp by the water pump (sanded for hours) it looks like YJ, but cannot be sure.

Told you it's long!!!! Here is my dilemma, how accurate is PHS? My blue car has AC (did dealers install this?) PHS does not list it on the replacement window sticker or order sheet, I have the map lights dome light not on option sheet, under hood and trunk lights, not listed.

I am picking up a YH 455 complete core sans alternator or ps pump, on the weekend, and that is the engine getting built over the winter for this resto. I am torn right now on heads, the 455 has 15's on it, and is a big car 455, casting # escapes me currently. I have 62's on the YD 400, and 74-75 6X-4 on the 350 in the blue car. I am looking to build a 9.5 to 1, daily cruiser with the original M20 (A code) 4 speed and original differential. I have not pulled the cover or checked dif numbers, to verify posi or ratio yet.

Thanks for listening to my ramblings, when this is all done, my license plates will read GDS47 (Gary David Scott 1947) my dads birthdate!

I hope to have a lot of updates coming up. I have fixed a ton of little things in the car already. Wiring is a mess, half of the heater box ducting is gone (vintage air coming soon) pioneer tape deck (bye-bye) I could go on...

I leave you with this....and it may be moved to another section, moderators....best suspension, handling kit to use? Qa1, Hotchkis, looking to update all 4 corners, availability is overwhelming today.

Cheers, Dave in Ottawa! Pics to follow!

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Old 09-16-2021, 08:18 PM
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Welcome. Nice story and car to restore. Sorry your dad passed. Maybe your dad made sure the car was close and easy to find? We’ll all find out someday right?
Anyway one of my 68 convertibles has AC but not on the PHS either. Low mileage car (@50k miles) has AC metal dash, controls, under dash plenum, suitcase, no kick panel vents, AC crank/WP pulleys and a very hard to find mint AC dash pad. No signs of cutting, welding, etc. I could be wrong but if it was modified at some point it would be a heck of a lot of work and expense for a Lemans.

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Old 09-16-2021, 09:18 PM
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The only time I've see a car that didn't agree with the PHS was one that turned out to be a re-body. You should try to find the VIN numbers on the frame and the door jamb tag if they're still there. You should also look for signs of a non-original rivet on the VIN plate.

I looked at a 72 Trans Am a number of years ago. There were some things that didn't look right, like paint under the interior was a different color than the brackets that held the rear sway bar onto the frame rails didn't look right. I didn't buy it, but I knew who ultimately bought it. I heard from him the VIN plate rivets weren't right and he pulled the heater box and found a 72 Esprit VIN.

Mike

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Old 09-17-2021, 08:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nytrainer View Post
Welcome. Nice story and car to restore. Sorry your dad passed. Maybe your dad made sure the car was close and easy to find? We’ll all find out someday right?
Anyway one of my 68 convertibles has AC but not on the PHS either. Low mileage car (@50k miles) has AC metal dash, controls, under dash plenum, suitcase, no kick panel vents, AC crank/WP pulleys and a very hard to find mint AC dash pad. No signs of cutting, welding, etc. I could be wrong but if it was modified at some point it would be a heck of a lot of work and expense for a Lemans.
Thanks, I just wish he was here to enjoy it when it is done. I have a minty ac dash pad as well as kick panels, I have been all through the car, and you are correct would be one heck of a job to install ac. I have the center vent and controls as well and all the vaccuum lines are present. but missing the under dash portion, and for some reason all the ducts including the defrost ducts.

Cheers, Dave

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Old 09-17-2021, 09:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by poncho-mike View Post
The only time I've see a car that didn't agree with the PHS was one that turned out to be a re-body. You should try to find the VIN numbers on the frame and the door jamb tag if they're still there. You should also look for signs of a non-original rivet on the VIN plate.

I looked at a 72 Trans Am a number of years ago. There were some things that didn't look right, like paint under the interior was a different color than the brackets that held the rear sway bar onto the frame rails didn't look right. I didn't buy it, but I knew who ultimately bought it. I heard from him the VIN plate rivets weren't right and he pulled the heater box and found a 72 Esprit VIN.

Mike
Now you have me concerned. I looked this morning and will look closer this evening. But just quickly the rivet stem is protruding. from one side of the vin plate. I can't see the other side, it is under a plastic frame. The doors plate is gone or painted over. I am not sure where on the frame to look and if you can see it with the body on. All the inner jams, inside the quarters, the over spray is blue that would have been there since factory. I also have the used care info package from the Ontario that lists every owner since new, and I am the 4th. So unless an accident was a cause, I can't see how or why it would have been rebodied.

Thanks, Dave

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Old 09-17-2021, 09:18 AM
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PHS records were taken from the original billing records. There are deviations particularly if it went to engineering, a zone office, or has the note "body in aisle". Back in the early '70s you could bet almost anything built. This is a '72 2 seat wagon with 400-4bbl, thm400, gauge package, posi, and AC.

When delivered it had no lubricant in the rear axle.(caught in delivery and never a problem.

Shown with about 50k on the clock. Think it is in Canada now.


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Old 09-17-2021, 10:39 AM
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Welcome — and my sympathies on the loss of your dad. I know how tough that is.

I look forward to seeing your project unfold. Gotta ask…any pictures?

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Old 09-17-2021, 01:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1_Wild_Cat View Post
Welcome — and my sympathies on the loss of your dad. I know how tough that is.

I look forward to seeing your project unfold. Gotta ask…any pictures?
Thanks, yes it has been tough. I have the rarest color butterfly show up at my shop every now and then while I am working, I can only hope that it is him swinging by to check up on me. Yes I will have a lot of pics to post as I move along. Here is the red car, and the blue car and interior that was apart for a new turn signal switch which I have now installed and repaired the horn shorting out the relay...but it all works now.
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Old 09-17-2021, 04:04 PM
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Very nice! Welcome!

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Old 09-17-2021, 04:06 PM
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Neat cars! The blue one with a 400 4bbl and 4 speed sounds like the original owner was ordering a GTO on the sly to avoid the insurance premium surcharges!

By the way. Canadians are always apologizing! No need, other than for having JT as prime minister that is ;-)

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1969 Fbird (Base, 350 & Sprint Cvt’s - 400HO & TA Hardtops)
1969 LeMans (2dr & 4dr Hardtop and a Cvt)
1969 LeMans Safari 2 seat Wagon
1969 GTO (2 Cvt, 2 Hardtops & Judge Hardtop)
1969 Catalina (3 Cvt’s & a 2dr hardtop)
1969 Ventura 2 Seat Wagon
1969 Executive 4dr Sedan
1969 Bonnie Cvt
1969 Bonnie 3 Seat Wagon (2 of them)
1969 Bonnie Brougham (4dr Hardtop & Cvt)
1969 Grand Prix SJ (2 of them)
1969 2+2 2dr Hardtop (Canadian model)
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Old 09-17-2021, 04:09 PM
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Reminds me of when my special order 305/4 speed/posi 78 Sunbird came in. Only thing the insurance agent asked was "Does it have the V6 engine" and I answered "No.".

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Old 09-17-2021, 05:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by north View Post
Neat cars! The blue one with a 400 4bbl and 4 speed sounds like the original owner was ordering a GTO on the sly to avoid the insurance premium surcharges!

By the way. Canadians are always apologizing! No need, other than for having JT as prime minister that is ;-)
I agree, but why in the world it was ordered with a clock instead of a tach and rallye gauges with the 4 speed is beyond me.

Don't get me started on the other....50% capital gain tax, 6 months of probate and tax, AGAIN, on the items if toys are not in both the husband and wife's name now....on and on....pretty soon our paychecks will just go to the gov't and we will get an allowance! Sorry!!!

cheers, Dave

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Old 09-17-2021, 07:30 PM
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The original owner either didn’t care about gauges (remember the factory cost was significant in today’s money-several hundred dollars- for factory tach and gauges or installed his own aftermarket afterwards that were cheaper and more accurate (supposedly).

Regardless neat cars, especially the blue 400 4spd!

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My Break Away Squad
1969 Fbird (Base, 350 & Sprint Cvt’s - 400HO & TA Hardtops)
1969 LeMans (2dr & 4dr Hardtop and a Cvt)
1969 LeMans Safari 2 seat Wagon
1969 GTO (2 Cvt, 2 Hardtops & Judge Hardtop)
1969 Catalina (3 Cvt’s & a 2dr hardtop)
1969 Ventura 2 Seat Wagon
1969 Executive 4dr Sedan
1969 Bonnie Cvt
1969 Bonnie 3 Seat Wagon (2 of them)
1969 Bonnie Brougham (4dr Hardtop & Cvt)
1969 Grand Prix SJ (2 of them)
1969 2+2 2dr Hardtop (Canadian model)
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Old 09-18-2021, 07:33 AM
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Default Getting this stuff was pretty cool, as well!

Protecto plate, warranty and original owners manual...came with the blue car.
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