Yup, Sales down *again*. - PY Online Forums

juliod · #1 07-02-2004, 12:03 PM

Along with a general decline in car sales in June, the GTO sales slipped to 598 units. That's the lowest since January, when sales were just ramping up. My estimate is about 6900 units for the first year.

If the sales are less than 7000 that must be considered something of a disaster. That would be less than 40% of the original sales expectation of about 18,000.

That compares very poorly with the sales of the 1964 GTO, which had 32,450 even though it was essentially the same as the Tempest.

DanZ

juliod · #2 07-02-2004, 12:03 PM

Along with a general decline in car sales in June, the GTO sales slipped to 598 units. That's the lowest since January, when sales were just ramping up. My estimate is about 6900 units for the first year.

If the sales are less than 7000 that must be considered something of a disaster. That would be less than 40% of the original sales expectation of about 18,000.

That compares very poorly with the sales of the 1964 GTO, which had 32,450 even though it was essentially the same as the Tempest.

DanZ

Goathead · #3 07-04-2004, 01:23 PM

So, bar all of the opinions stated on this site to date, even Pontiac has to face the fact that this warmed over Monero is definately a big failure. That is what some of us "Purist" were afraid of, and it has happened. Basterdizing the GTO name has become reality....what an embarassment.

KVman389 · #4 07-04-2004, 04:56 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by Goathead:
So, bar all of the opinions stated on this site to date, even Pontiac has to face the fact that this warmed over Monero is definately a big failure. That is what some of us "Purist" were afraid of, and it has happened. Basterdizing the GTO name has become reality....what an embarassment.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

We are just a bunch of out of date old farts that can't accept that these are new times, and are stuck in the past. It's looks like the experience of age vs. the impetuance of youth.

Mr_GTO · #5 07-04-2004, 05:32 PM

GTO sales went up for 2 years after introduction and then went down basically for the remainder of it's life.

Not to mention that GTO THEN didn't have to compete with foreign cars that were in all intense and purpose competitors. GTO today has to. Simple facts.

Will the '05 be better? Yup. Will sales increase? Yup. With word that the '05 will have 400hp and more options, are people waiting for better deals on leftover '04s? Yup.

It is all relative.

svede1212 · #6 07-04-2004, 06:33 PM

i'll echo Mr_GTO . let's see. in 1964 there were three (four if you want to count Rambler) car companies and pretty much no choices in HiPo cars. today there are... heck i don't even know because there are too many choices. having lived thru it i also know that the 60's were full of national fads. remember a fad called the beatles? there have been many great bands since then but never a phenomenom like them since. (don't give me an argument "what if they tried to bring back the beatles." they were people not cars) there are too many genres and choices in music now. the times made the ledgend of the GTO as much or more so than the car. "That compares very poorly with the sales of the 1964 GTO, which had 32,450 even though it was essentially the same as the Tempest. " that statement kind of comfirms that doesn't it? the '64 also needed those numbers to continue. the '04 does not. "That is what some of us "Purist" were afraid of, and it has happened." PURISTS? i think old farts is a better term. maybe you have your AM radio turned up too loud to hear that times have changed. most of these types of statements on this board have been uttered with glee and hoped for since the car was announced. i have too much respect to go to your section and trash your car. apparently you don't even tho i wish this site catered more toward the '04 enthusiest than the elitest, 'royal blood' menatlistly that seems to prevail here. "Basterdizing the GTO name " <sigh>(by the way it's bastardizing). did you spout that gibberish when they made those P.O.S in the 70's? that my friend was bastardization not this baby. i'll bet you didn't because you actually think there is some sort of bloodline. what a joke. don't worry your baby will always have its niche in history right there with the beatles and your lost youth. i only think about those kind of things when i read this stuff and i have to shake my head. most of the time i have my nickleback cd cranked up too loud to hear your echos of the past. maybe you ought to rethink your motivation for this continued hoping beyond hope that this car will fail... or maybe you ought to go out and give an '04 a spin... and get a little young at heart again.

Goathead · #7 07-04-2004, 08:28 PM

Face it guy's, young vs old or not, the '04 Monero is a cosmetic failure...

Coming this fall, the latest Mustang design is meant, in the words of J Mays, Ford's vice president for design, "to look like it's going to kick your ass."

I guess Ford listens to "Old Farts"..maybe that's why they outsell Pontiacs.....

have its niche in history right there with the beatles and your lost youth

Svede, whoever you are, it's strange that the beatles music still survives today, just like the old GTO's. Do you really think that the '04 whatever will be remembered in the same way....don't think so....

PS: Thank you for the correct spelling Mr Misus..

KVman389 · #8 07-05-2004, 03:32 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by svede1212:
i'll echo Mr_GTO . let's see. in 1964 there were three (four if you want to count Rambler) car companies and pretty much no choices in HiPo cars. today there are... heck i don't even know because there are too many choices. having lived thru it i also know that the 60's were full of national fads. remember a fad called the beatles? there have been many great bands since then but never a phenomenom like them since. (don't give me an argument "what if they tried to bring back the beatles." they were people not cars) there are too many genres and choices in music now. the times made the ledgend of the GTO as much or more so than the car. "That compares very poorly with the sales of the 1964 GTO, which had 32,450 _even though it was essentially the same as the Tempest_. " that statement kind of comfirms that doesn't it? the '64 also needed those numbers to continue. the '04 does not. "That is what some of us "Purist" were afraid of, and it has happened." PURISTS? i think old farts is a better term. maybe you have your AM radio turned up too loud to hear that times have changed. most of these types of statements on this board have been uttered with glee and hoped for since the car was announced. i have too much respect to go to your section and trash your car. apparently you don't even tho i wish this site catered more toward the '04 enthusiest than the elitest, 'royal blood' menatlistly that seems to prevail here. "Basterdizing the GTO name " <sigh>(by the way it's bastardizing). did you spout that gibberish when they made those P.O.S in the 70's? that my friend was bastardization not this baby. i'll bet you didn't because you actually think there is some sort of bloodline. what a joke. don't worry your baby will always have its niche in history right there with the beatles and your lost youth. i only think about those kind of things when i read this stuff and i have to shake my head. most of the time i have my nickleback cd cranked up too loud to hear your echos of the past. maybe you ought to rethink your motivation for this continued hoping beyond hope that this car will fail... or maybe you ought to go out and give an '04 a spin... and get a little young at heart again. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Having lived through the 60's, your old age is catching up with you. You forgot European imports. You also need to bone up on your automotive history about high performance cars of the late 50's and early 60's. (Mr_GTO will probably want a list). As far as the Beatles; (Not that big of a fan), being a fad, since when do fads last 8(?) years? I've worked hard, and lived through much, and am proud of my old fart status. I don't need to crank up Nickleback, or anyone else to try and keep up with the times. It also gives me the right not to accept someone else's version of a reborn legend

, which an Austrailian car with chevy parts badged "Pontiac GTO" most certainly is not. Believe me, I don't need this import, Nickleback, Puddle of Mud, (or any new group), or a toupe as any precieved crutch to keep me young at heart

Goathead · #9 07-05-2004, 05:57 AM

I don't need this import, Nickleback, Puddle of Mud, (or any new group), or a toupe as any precieved crutch to keep me young at heart

How about a KIA and some 9" Nails?

The Champ · #10 07-05-2004, 06:51 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by Goathead:
I guess Ford listens to "Old Farts"..maybe that's why they outsell Pontiacs.....

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Pontiac never built a GTO without a 350 V8 or larger.

Most Mustang's never had a V8 from the factory and most of the V8's were smaller than anything that ever went between the front wheels of a GTO.

You're comparing apples and oranges here Danny.

gtoric · #11 07-05-2004, 07:15 AM

This "old fart purist" vs. "sweet fart new age yuppy" argument is gettng real old real fast. The fact is, Pontiac designed the new GTO to visually appeal to an upscale purchaser of performance imports, and at the same time equipped and badged it to appeal to the old school muscle car enthusiast. Projected sales volumes aren't being covered. Does Pontiac drop the GTO moniker, and steer the platform towards the yuppy, or do they move in a more retro direction with the styling and keep the GTO name hoping that the "purists" will step up in larger numbers? Driving down the middle of the road gets you into serious trouble sooner or later. Pontiac's biggest challenge will be to reach a suitable compromise between the two camps, or offer a choice.

Did anyone read the latest AutoWeek, the "Star Spangled Special", "America's Best" issue? The people have spoken and America's Best Coupe is the Infinity G35, followed by the BMW 6 Series and the BMW 3 Series. Speaks volumes of the AutoWeek readership. This is what Pontiac is up against. The import bias of the American automotive press has so twisted the American car buying public's taste, perception, and purchasing habits that an excellent offering from a domestic automaker (the GTO) isn't even on the poll responder's radar screen.

Goathead · #12 07-05-2004, 07:59 AM

[BPontiac designed the new GTO to visually appeal to an upscale purchaser of performance imports, and at the same time equipped and badged it to appeal to the old school muscle car enthusiast. [/B]

Gtoric, I guess that they failed on both fronts looking at the crappie sales that they have posted. This is one of the points, Pontiac has no concrete direction and is trying to find anything that will sell their cars, including reaching for the past.

It is not our fault that this car has failed. We a just a minute fraction of the populus. Evidently, through the USA this car is not appealing, face it...

phendee · #13 07-05-2004, 08:36 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by Goathead:
[BPontiac designed the new GTO to visually appeal to an upscale purchaser of performance imports, and at the same time equipped and badged it to appeal to the old school muscle car enthusiast. [/B]

Gtoric, I guess that they failed on both fronts looking at the crappie sales that they have posted. This is one of the points, Pontiac has no concrete direction and is trying to find anything that will sell their cars, including reaching for the past.

It is not our fault that this car has failed. We a just a minute fraction of the populus. Evidently, through the USA this car is not appealing, face it...

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Man, you must be really old and set in your ways
to keeping pounding away at the sales of this car. You've made your point several times. Move on. Time is passing you by. Styles change.
You won't see that OLD GTO look again. It is old. Put the old GTO and the new GTO side by
side, in today's world, who would win styling.
Oldy would be history. Hey, I like the old
GTO's too, but enough with the 04 styling bashing already. Your old school, don't like it, ok you've made your point. Styling may
have kept some people away, just like any car.
People don't even know is car is out for crying out loud. I've heard in droves "When did they
bring the GTO back", and whose fault is that.
Pontiac. On the other hand, they only were gonna make 18000, that's nothing in todays sales.

Goathead · #14 07-05-2004, 09:46 AM

On the other hand, they only were gonna make 18000, that's nothing in todays sales.

And only selling 9000 out of those 18000, what about that? In a corner, huh?

Mr_GTO · #15 07-05-2004, 10:13 AM

Danny, sales forcasts were dropped down after they lost 2000 units at the beginning of the year.

For those that missed the GTO vs CLK comparo in MT, you should read it. There were 3 letters to MT about how people would rather own 2 GTO's to a CLK MB. I know how Misus likes that MB quality, he should check out a new GTO. They are nice riding cars.

David Jones · #16 07-05-2004, 10:34 AM

Shouldn't have any trouble getting one.

phendee · #17 07-05-2004, 10:37 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by Goathead:
_On the other hand, they only were gonna make 18000, that's nothing in todays sales._

And only selling 9000 out of those 18000, what about that? In a corner, huh?

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Look at sales cars sales across the board.
They are not exactly setting sales records. This along with poor marketing has been the
factors. You can talk all you want about style
and why you think that is the reason, but your
only fooling yourself. Hey, isn't that a song?
No corners here sir, but my 04 goat sure can take um alot better than your old goat.

Tom McQueen · #18 07-05-2004, 10:40 AM

"The fact is, Pontiac designed the new GTO to visually appeal to an upscale purchaser of performance imports, and at the same time equipped and badged it to appeal to the old school muscle car enthusiast."
-----------------------------------------------

HUH!!!??? Sorry, but your facts are imaginary. Pontiac didnt design diddly squat on this car. Its an existing design imported and re-badged, in a blatant attempt to squeeze a few more bucks from a classic old name. Period. Im sure the Monaro is a fine car. But it aint a GTO.
As for appealing to the old school musclecar crowd, dont make me laugh. I happen to be a part of the old school musclecar crowd, and I know a fair number of others that qualify for that title. See, if it did appeal to the old schoolers, we would buy one. Cause were older, and most of us have the funds to afford one. But as the sales figures show, the market for the car in its current form just isnt there.
And given GM's talent for snatching defeat from the jaws of victory, Im not optimistic about its future.

phendee · #19 07-05-2004, 02:31 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>
But it aint a GTO.
As for appealing to the old school musclecar crowd, dont make me laugh. I happen to be a part of the old school musclecar crowd, and I know a fair number of others that qualify for that title. See, if it did appeal to the old schoolers, we would buy one, <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Just cause it's not a GTO to you means nothing.
It is indeed a GTO more than ever. As far as a few old coggers shelling out the money, that wouldn't even put a dent in more sales. The fact is people don't even know this car exists.
Pontiac totally blew marketing of this car. Don't flatter yourselves. Just cause the old timers don't like don't mean squat in sales.

The Champ · #20 07-05-2004, 04:02 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by Tom McQueen:

As for appealing to the old school musclecar crowd, dont make me laugh. I happen to be a part of the old school musclecar crowd, and I know a fair number of others that qualify for that title. See, if it did appeal to the old schoolers, we would buy one. Cause were older, and most of us have the funds to afford one. But as the sales figures show, the market for the car in its current form just isnt there.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well I happen to be one of the old school Muscle Car crowd, I've owned my '64 for 12 years, and my Dad was selling them new when they first came out (wanna see my Dad's 1964 Pontiac Dealers Sales Manual?).

I have driven the new GTO, and it is a fantastic car. It has more power, better handling, and more creature comforts than any GTO ever built.

I haven't purchased one because I already own 5 vehicles (two daily drivers which do not need replacing at this time and the three listed below which aren't for sale).

Besides, I guess I'm more interested in the '05 after learning months ago that it would have a few of the styling cues that have been discussed and the 6.0 liter, 400 HP, LS2.

I'm sure I'm not the only one that might be waiting for an '05...

And gtoric knows more about the GTO (old or new) than you can imagine.