Check Goathead for Fever... - Page 3 - PY Online Forums

racerboy · #41 12-16-2004, 05:56 PM

I meant Goats, not 'GOtas', but you all knew that!

red70goat · #42 12-16-2004, 06:01 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by racerboy:
I meant Goats, not 'GOtas', but you all knew that!

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
damn...nice 70!

I hope to get mine in that condition. Ya' know rb...for $550,000k you could park that Viper Tomahawk next to those Ponchos!

rabon008 · #43 12-16-2004, 09:36 PM

Goathead wrote: I own 3 real ones and a Firebird...

That's exactly my point...there's nothing wrong with owning more than one Goat...I am sure yours are nice cars...have no problem calling them GTOs...I own one GTO and am getting another...that you don't consider mine to be "real" GTOs won't affect the fact that every magazine, car manufacturer and after market manufacturer from this point forward will accept them as real GTOs. When someone searches my VINs years from now they will see that they are GTOs...just like yours...the '04s and '05s are already "in the books" and there is nothing that the nay-sayers can do about it...except whine...

red70goat · #44 12-16-2004, 10:21 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by Rabon:

.."When someone searches my VINs years from now they will see that they are GTOs...just like yours...the '04s and '05s are already "in the books"... <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Rab, I don't think anybody is disputing the fact since GM owns the marketing rights to "Pontiac GTO" that these cars in the manufacturing sense are GTOs. Given the lack of product developement, marketing, GTO identity and overall negative reaction a precedent may have very well been set for a 2nd demise of the GTO. GM had a real opportunity with the GTO to be the leader in a renewed musclecar movement and they blew it.

Trace · #45 12-16-2004, 11:16 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by red70goat:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by Rabon:

.."When someone searches my VINs years from now they will see that they are GTOs...just like yours...the '04s and '05s are already "in the books"... <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Rab, I don't think anybody is disputing the fact since GM owns the marketing rights to "Pontiac GTO" that these cars in the manufacturing sense are GTOs. Given the lack of product developement, marketing, GTO identity and overall negative reaction a precedent may have very well been set for a 2nd demise of the GTO. GM had a real opportunity with the GTO to be the leader in a renewed musclecar movement and they blew it. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Ha, red, just how much "product development" went into the early GTO's?? Fercrissakes, man, they took a Tempest off the line, crammed the bigger engine under the hood, probably firmed up a bolt here & a weld there, stiffer shocks, a GTO tag & voila, you've got yourself the original Goats. You keep acting like the GTO's were clean-sheet designs, unique platforms like the 'Vette. Come out in the sunlight man & view reality. I like the ol' GTO's bout as much as anyone, but facts is facts! The present GTO is light-years beyond anything thats worn the badge before, the fact that the skin over the top hasn't lit the fires of a lot of lookers is easily overcome, either by getting people to drive one (a drive makes the car look oh so much better) or pump up the boy-racer looks ala the 'Stang by altering the sheetmetal/plastic cosmetics. In the meantime I'll continue to enjoy the best car I've ever owned & enjoy the looks that personally love!

red70goat · #46 12-17-2004, 05:57 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by Trace:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by red70goat:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Rabon:

.."When someone searches my VINs years from now they will see that they are GTOs...just like yours...the '04s and '05s are already "in the books"... <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Rab, I don't think anybody is disputing the fact since GM owns the marketing rights to "Pontiac GTO" that these cars in the manufacturing sense are GTOs. Given the lack of product developement, marketing, GTO identity and overall negative reaction a precedent may have very well been set for a 2nd demise of the GTO. GM had a real opportunity with the GTO to be the leader in a renewed musclecar movement and they blew it. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Ha, red, just how much "product development" went into the early GTO's?? QUOTE]

Who cares? That was 40 freakin' years ago. And how does that have anything to do with Pontiacs dismal sales figures now? Comparing technology then and now is an empty argument.

Mr_GTO · #47 12-17-2004, 06:49 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by red70goat:
Who cares? That was 40 freakin' years ago. And how does that have anything to do with Pontiacs dismal sales figures now? Comparing technology then and now is an empty argument. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

If it goes against your argument it is always "who cares" uh? What a joke.

And FYI, we have a thing today called the DOT which is part of the Federal Gov't which means you can only do so much to an existing product to make sure it can be sold here.

And things in development need to meet DOT requirements for 2007 and BEYOND.
You continue to demonstrate how ignorant you are on how things are designed and built for public consumption here in the United States.

red70goat · #48 12-17-2004, 06:56 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by Mr_GTO:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by red70goat:
Who cares? That was 40 freakin' years ago. And how does that have anything to do with Pontiacs dismal sales figures now? Comparing technology then and now is an empty argument. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

If it goes against your argument it is always "who cares" uh? What a joke.

And FYI, we have a thing today called the DOT which is part of the Federal Gov't which means you can only do so much to an existing product to make sure it can be sold here.

And things in development need to meet DOT requirements for 2007 and BEYOND.
You continue to demonstrate how ignorant you are on how things are designed and built for public consumption here in the United States. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Take a chill pill dude. Nobody is saying that your beloved GM Monaro is not DOT compliant. And I still don't care what technology Pontiac was using on a Tempest 40 yrs. ago. (huh????? ) The fact is GM rushed this into production and I think that will only hurt, not help GMs sales regardless of your infantile assumptions as to my "ignorance". This is an opinion of mine, not an attempt to convey fact. Check out : "GMs Boss Bob Lutz on the evils of Perfection" The Gweilo Diaries, January 2004.

Mr_GTO · #49 12-17-2004, 07:21 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by red70goat:

Take a chill pill dude. Nobody is saying that your beloved GM Monaro is not DOT compliant. And I still don't care what technology Pontiac was using on a Tempest 40 yrs. ago. (huh????? ) The fact is GM rushed this into production and I think that will only hurt, not help GMs sales regardless of your infantile assumptions as to my "ignorance". This is an opinion of mine, not an attempt to convey fact. Check out : "GMs Boss Bob Lutz on the evils of Perfection" The Gweilo Diaries, January 2004. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

YOU are the troll basher in this forum, not me. I won't calm down because talking to you and others like you is like talking to a wall because you don't like to look at the facts, you like to make up opinion and pass if off as fact. Sounds exactly like Democrats actually.

We aren't talking technology from 40 years ago, keep up. We are talking about rushing a car to production. GM 40 years ago didn't have to deal with the DOT like they have to today. UNDERSTAND?

Explain to me how it is going to HURT GM sales? Please, I want to hear this on.

Right, you haven't presented ANY facts, just opinion and when your OPINIONS get shot down with FACTS, you go into denial stage.

David Jones · #50 12-17-2004, 07:43 AM

....hence, the gas tanks insertion into the trunk......

The Champ · #51 12-17-2004, 09:17 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by red70goat:
regardless of your infantile assumptions as to my "ignorance". <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

They are not assumptions.

You have proven your ignorance time and time again with your posting here.

That is not just my opinion, that is a fact.

What makes matters worse, is you won't admit you are wrong when proven wrong.

Goathead · #52 12-17-2004, 09:27 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR> they took a Tempest off the line <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Excuse me, it was a LeMans.....

red70goat · #53 12-17-2004, 11:57 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by Mr_GTO:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by red70goat:

Take a chill pill dude. Nobody is saying that your beloved GM Monaro is not DOT compliant. And I still don't care what technology Pontiac was using on a Tempest 40 yrs. ago. (huh????? ) The fact is GM rushed this into production and I think that will only hurt, not help GMs sales regardless of your infantile assumptions as to my "ignorance". This is an opinion of mine, not an attempt to convey fact. Check out : "GMs Boss Bob Lutz on the evils of Perfection" The Gweilo Diaries, January 2004. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

"YOU are the troll basher in this forum, not me."

>>> I never said you were. You prove my point once again: If one doesn't like the 2004 GTO then they must be an ignorant troll.

" you like to make up opinion and pass if off as fact."

>>> read my post again butthead:" This is an opinion of mine, not an attempt to convey fact." Do I need to spell that out for you?

"Sounds exactly like Democrats actually."

>>> I wouldn't know what Democrats think given that I've been a Republican all my life. But you apparently do.

"We aren't talking technology from 40 years ago, keep up."

>>> You're the one who brought it up , not me. I could care less what Pontiac did to a Tempest 40 years ago in reference to the current GTO Format. It's not applicable. Apparantly you feel it is.

"We are talking about rushing a car to production. GM 40 years ago didn't have to deal with the DOT like they have to today."

>>> Sounds like another Lutz cop out to me. Averege time to get a car into production: 4 years. GM Monaro :17 months. Sound like a rush job to me. That's an opinion. Understand? Performace wise in it's class it's 2nd to none. That's fact. There's a difference. Understand?

"UNDERSTAND?"

>>> Attempting to market a car as a GTO on a Monaro Chassis with Pontiac fleet looks was not a good idea for GM in my opinion. That's an opinion. Understand?

"Explain to me how it is going to HURT GM sales?"
>>> Apparantley it already has. " The GTO has a look that is not uncommon in some of their lower level domestic vehicles...That could explain the disappointing sales....under 8300 units sold in the first 9 months on a year end projection of 16,000." Joe Ivers, Executive Director of Quality and Customer Satisfaction, JD Power and Associates from article "Are GTO weak sales the Result of Flat styling?"... That is fact. Understand? As far as Holden having their grubby little hands in it: If the GM Monaro had a more retro look to it I doubt people would much care where it was built. That's opinion. Understand? The one and only GM Monaro I saw here in SLC had a really poor quality finish to it. That doesn't give me confidence in an Australian assembly line. That's opinion. Understand?

"Right, you haven't presented ANY facts, just opinion.... <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

>>>read my post again butthead: "This is an opinion of mine, not an attempt to convey fact." Opinion. Understand?

red70goat · #54 12-17-2004, 12:18 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by The Champ:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by red70goat:
regardless of your infantile assumptions as to my "ignorance". <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

"They are not assumptions.
What makes matters worse, is you won't admit you are wrong when proven wrong. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

>>>Under 8300 sales first 9 months on a year end projection of 16,000. Take that up with GM, not me. It's their figures.

>>> My post to Mr_GTO echoes what I have to say here to you. Read it before making any erroneous assumptions as to my conveying fact vs. expressing an opinion.

>>> As far as my opinion that given the weak sales of the 04 and lack of mainstream automotive media coverage on the 05 we may not see an 07 GTO: I may be wrong. Only time will tell. If I am then so be it.

Goathead · #55 12-17-2004, 01:03 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>I wouldn't know what Democrats think given that I've been a Republican all my life. But you apparently do.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Now what the hell does republican vs democrat have to do with this? Take it out back guys and settle this like real men, don't blame it on political affiliation, please....

red70goat · #56 12-17-2004, 01:14 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by Goathead:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>I wouldn't know what Democrats think given that I've been a Republican all my life. But you apparently do.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Now what the hell does republican vs democrat have to do with this? Take it out back guys and settle this like real men, don't blame it on political affiliation, please....

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Nothing, not sure what Mr_GTO was fishing for there.

Nickv · #57 12-17-2004, 01:35 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by Goathead:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR> they took a Tempest off the line <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Excuse me, it was a LeMans.....

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Actually the original test mule was a Tempest.

Goathead · #58 12-17-2004, 01:39 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by Goathead:

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
they took a Tempest off the line
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Excuse me, it was a LeMans.....
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Actually the original test mule was a Tempest.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

But production was a LeMans option....

RandyW · #59 12-17-2004, 03:07 PM

Actually in a lot of Pontiac lit, they are refered to as Tempest LeMans.

Goathead · #60 12-18-2004, 10:37 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR> Actually in a lot of Pontiac lit, they are refered to as Tempest LeMans. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

So, we are both right, what a compromise....