For all the haters - PY Online Forums

Respect · #1 11-19-2004, 10:55 PM

The average American just doesn't seem to get it

DELUDED

Respect · #2 11-19-2004, 10:55 PM

The average American just doesn't seem to get it

DELUDED

David Jones · #3 11-20-2004, 05:56 PM

Yeah, you're right, the average American doesn't get it. Sales prove it. On the Volkswagen front, I had a GTI, back in 83. Close ratio 5sp with the early model run shorter final drive. Crap car, but a ball to drive. Loved to feel the inside rear wheel lift on a fast turn. Before that I had a 79 Scirocco. Great little car in need of some horsepower.

Respect · #4 11-20-2004, 07:20 PM

[QUOTE] [ posted November 20, 2004 07:56 PM
Yeah, you're right, the average American doesn't get it. Sales prove it

/QUOTE]
65 posts on a VW forum, almost all extremely positive. I think Pontiac has a halo car, which is all the GTO is about. Sales ARE secondary

David Jones · #5 11-20-2004, 07:41 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Sales ARE secondary <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Right

Respect · #6 11-20-2004, 08:58 PM

The advertising industry is a testament to the worth of investing in intangibles such as public perceptions of a brand. An ad compaign is a direct ioss to the bottom line, but ideally a net gain to a business. What ever the immediate financial gain/loss to GM, the volumes on the GTO were never going to produce more than what amounts to small change to GM.

GET REAL

David Jones · #7 11-21-2004, 06:31 AM

The public perception of this car has been poor at best. The general consensus being that Pontiac could have done better. Pontiac will spend the next few model years trying to overcome that. Hence the new hood scoops and the "Corvette" motor in the 05. Maybe they could also figure out a way to remove the fuel tank from the trunk. If Pontiac was hoping for a something to improve public perception of the brand, they were wide of the target. Positive comments on a Volkswagen forum will probably not have the powers that be at GM sleeping well. You have one? Enjoy it. Don't delude yourself into thinking this is a watershed moment in GM history.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>GET REAL <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Good comeback...........

455HOGT37 · #8 11-21-2004, 06:41 AM

OK I've heard this "halo car" BS for about a year now. I didn't know what it meant before, but I think I have a handle on it now.

Apparently, the definition of a halo car is one that does not sell well, competely alienates the carmakers loyal customer base while remaining almost completly unknown to all others. Oh yes, it must also be a rebadged foreign car that is produced on the other side of the planet from the target market.

I guess the '88 "Pontiac LeMans" was a "halo car".

You can argue a "by design" low volume sales all you want, but you can not claim that this thing has drawn the public into the showrooms to check out the rest of the product line.

Two dozen VW owners who like this car... Hardly a marketing coup for GM!

455HOGT37 · #9 11-21-2004, 06:46 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by Respect:
The average American just doesn't seem to get it

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Isn't that what some of us have been saying all along? Thanks for supporting our point!

red70goat · #10 11-21-2004, 03:19 PM

you're right: the average anerican doesn't get it and the stupid ones are buying it.

455HOGT37 · #11 11-21-2004, 05:34 PM

Well, I wouldn't go that far. There is plenty good about the machine, it just has not been accepted as the "rebirth" of the legend.

It's just another car, saddled with an unfortunate marketing strategy.

HUMBLER · #12 11-21-2004, 05:45 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by moomba:
you're right: the average anerican doesn't get it and the stupid ones are buying it. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Tripower455 · #13 11-21-2004, 06:39 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by moomba:
you're right: the average anerican doesn't get it and the stupid ones are buying it. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I guess ignorance IS bliss!

David Jones · #14 11-21-2004, 06:51 PM

No No No. This is not a stupid or smart thing. That is not a good choice of words. The guys that own these cars made a choice to purchase one because they like it. More power to them. We don't need to get to this level.

gtohurstjudge · #15 11-21-2004, 07:04 PM

I am going to buy an 05 as a daily driver. I
doubt this car will ever be collectible, but
my 69 GTO convertible, 79 T/A and 2001 T/A has
those bases covered already. I work on cars for a living and drive all kinds of cars every day,
and the interior of the GTO is the nicest of anything GM makes bar none. It is not as pretty on the outside as my 69 GTO but what car made in the last 25 years is? The 4th gen firebird
was the last good looking 4 place car sold in America in my opinion. The build quality and nice interior features and the way the GTO drives make up a lot of ground in counteracting
the exterior styling. The 05 is going to look
better with a good looking hood and ram air....
and what about those 400 net horses? That car
will suck the doors off my 69 in a drag race
and get twice the gas mileage while it is doing it. Also...there were several years of GTO's
made in the first eleven year run that were not all that beautiful to look at. The 64 and 65
are too boxy and the 71, 72, 73 and 74 just don't cut it in the looks department in my opinion. If you don't like the new GTO you don't
have to buy it...this is a free country, but the
fact of the matter is, it is just as attractive as the vast majority of cars anyone else is selling, it goes like stink and has a nicer interior and build quality than any of them. I
think the biggest problem with sales in 04 is that they priced it a little too high, but if
they hold the line on price in 05 and give us
400 horses....what a bargain! GTOHURSTJUDGE

red70goat · #16 11-22-2004, 06:31 PM

The problem with the 04 had nothing to do with price. GM dropped it by nearly 10k and it still didn't sell. The problem was GM under estimated the intellect of their consumer: slapping a GTO badge on an import that looks like every other car out there was both insulting and poor judgement on GM's part. Hopefully somebody will wake Lutz up from his nap and he'll get a clue.

HUMBLER · #17 11-22-2004, 07:24 PM

Mr_GTO · #18 11-23-2004, 04:24 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by whatza monaro??:
The problem with the 04 had nothing to do with price. GM dropped it by nearly 10k and it still didn't sell. The problem was GM under estimated the intellect of their consumer: slapping a GTO badge on an import that looks like every other car out there was both insulting and poor judgement on GM's part. Hopefully somebody will wake Lutz up from his nap and he'll get a clue. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

UH? They sold in the last 2 months than the whole rest of the production year. the car handles and accelerates and stops, is built better and has the best interior of any GM car made today and you think it is an insult? LOL, I don't think it is Lutz that needs to find a clue.

Tripower455 · #19 11-23-2004, 09:29 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by whatza monaro??:
The problem with the 04 had nothing to do with price. GM dropped it by nearly 10k and it still didn't sell. The problem was GM under estimated the intellect of their consumer: slapping a GTO badge on an import that looks like every other car out there was both insulting and poor judgement on GM's part. Hopefully somebody will wake Lutz up from his nap and he'll get a clue. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

The only thing about the car that is questionable is the looks of it, which is a purely subjective thing. It is not an ugly car by any means (if you think it is, just picture an Aztec or Element!). It DOES look like everything else out there (a good thing, for me at least), but try buying an import or domestic that has nearly as much going for it as the GTO, even at retail price. With the GTO, you are well into BMW territory performance wise, for a fraction of the price. The fit and finish is great, and it's comfortable to boot. There really isn't any other comparable car (RWD, Manual V8 with ROOM for 4 adults) around, at anywhere near it's price range.

I paid $3K less for my '01 Formula back in '00 than I did for a new GTO in September. Arguably, the Formula is a much better LOOKING car, but the GTO blows it away in just about every other aspect. The Formula might have been a tad quicker, but I've never taken either to the track, and on the street, the difference is not noticeable. The ride and comfort level is so far above the Formula, that I don't know how I drove that thing as long as I did!

If anything, GM OVER estimated the intellect of it's consumer with the GTO, figuring that people would see past the plain-ish skin and appreciate the subtleties of the whole package, instead of just how it looks. I completely agree that GM exercised poor judgement in this case....

That said, as a dyed in the wool GTO fan for my entire life, I wish they had called the '04 something else. Different versions of the same car would have been cool. Offer a LeMans and an optional, fancier GTO package with more HP and some different styling cues like they did back in the day.

I really think the '04 GTO would have made the perfect Grand Prix.

Just my $.02......

red70goat · #20 11-23-2004, 12:56 PM

"they sold more in the last 2 months than all year"...compared to what? If you're looking at anticipated sales, volume vs. markdown, it's still pathetic. GMs Monaro would have done better under a different name than GTO. As a performance sedan it holds it's own. As a GTO it is a failure. The only ones that like this car are pre-pubescent tuners and they don't have the money to buy one anyways. Look for bigger spoilers, ricer air boxes and fart can exhausts on the 05 as options.