For all the haters - Page 5 - PY Online Forums

pont3 · #81 12-01-2004, 10:25 AM

Why all these "doesn't look like a GTO so it's not a GTO" assertions? From '64 to '74 each generation changed substantially. The '65, '66', and '67 were all evolutions of the '64. Then the '68, totally different appearance, did not resemble the previous years at all, yet they wore the same badges. Then the '70-'72 evolved from the '68, similar appearance but vastly different look. Then, the '73 was not even in the same league. Then came the Novafied '74.

GM could have based the '04 on any one of these years. Would we ALL be happy then? Absolutely not because even though we love all year GTOs we still have varying preferences on which year we like best. Bob Lutz stated this car would only use the current platform for three years then switch to a different platform and design that would be built in the U.S.

This is not the end my friends, it is the beginning. Pontiac had to start somewhere!! It's been over thirty years!! The way I see it, we have two choices:

1. Support Pontiac's efforts(I know many of you consider it a lack of effort) and demonstrate to GM that a market does, indeed, exist for this TYPE of car. This will encourage continued development and refinement of the great name.

2. Continue to bash and discourage sales so that more potential buyers will resist. Convey the message to GM that the market for this type of car is not profitable and it will be history. We will watch the continued proliferation of four door, FWD crossovers and be forced to buy foreign makes to attain what we already have in the '04. (Yes GTO is foreign but made by GM) There won't be any future iterations for us to have fun arguing about.

Yes, the '04 GTO has sold slowly but so has most other makes and models. Some "new models" have gotten off to a faster start and more power to them. However, I can't think of any manufacturer that is not currently offering some sort of incentive to move cars from their lots (average peoples' cars that is).

455HOGT37 · #82 12-01-2004, 10:52 AM

Does anyone really think that the "haters" or the "old school" drives down sales? How frigging weak minded do you have to be to not buy a car because someone else doesn't like it? I guess I'm "old school" in that I don't accept it as a Pontiac, let alone a Pontiac GTO because it simply isn't. It's a Holden, and that is all there is to it. I can look out my hotel window today and see the SAME CAR badged as a Chevrolet Lumina (engineered for the Middle East, according to the radio ads). So what is it? Chevy, Pontiac, or Holden? What is this thing in Europe, a Vauxhall? Bob does not get to snap his fingers and erase the Holden bloodline. It is not a matter of performance number. It is not a matter of "deserve". It IS a matter of fact: This fine automobile is a Holden, NOT a Pontiac GTO.

It would be nice to get past this fact and talk about the ugly rear quarters for a change.

red70goat · #83 12-01-2004, 06:11 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by The Champ:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by whatza monaro??:
uhhh, yeah right. And I suppose you're going to tell us hideaways on the '69 were standard equipment also. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

It was standard equipment from 1968 - 1972, and only in 1968 could you delete if on a regular production order.

Maybe you should change your name on this board to _whatza GTO_ because it appears you know very little about them - old or new. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Mr. PHS: In 1970 a Pontiac dealership came up with the idea of offering a "Jury" model as a low buck alternative to the Judge. It had stripes, spoilers, etc. but no endura bumper.Pontiac later endorsed this a option for the '70 LeMans Pillar Sports Coupe. Many people try to sell these as GTO's. This is what I was referencing as 1970 being the last good year for the GTO and only as with the Endura Bumper. As far as my knowing little or nothing about the GTO: I know enough not to plunk down $30k on something that is really a Monaro in disguise. The 2004 GM Monaro will have the same legacy as the 1974 Ventura: GM attempting to market an ugly and undesirable car by attempting to mask it as a GTO. They should have retired the model in 1970 and given the GM Monaro an identity all its' own.

Tripower455 · #84 12-01-2004, 06:38 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Mr. PHS: In 1970 a Pontiac dealership came up with the idea of offering a "Jury" model as a low buck alternative to the Judge. It had stripes, spoilers, etc. but no endura bumper.Pontiac later endorsed this a option for the '70 LeMans Pillar Sports Coupe. Many people try to sell these as GTO's. This is what I was referencing as 1970 being the last good year for the GTO and only as with the Endura Bumper. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

LOL.......

Champ nailed you with a 100% correct argument regarding a comment you made, proving YOUR ignorance on the subject, and now you are REALLY reaching.......

How many people have even heard of an obscure, dealer installed Tempest option called "The Jury"?

Endura was never an option on a '70 GTO, it was the only available nose you could get.

You are/were/will probably always be WRONG......

Give it up Joe..........

red70goat · #85 12-01-2004, 08:12 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by Tripower455:
[QUOTE]

How many people have even heard of an obscure, dealer installed Tempest option called "The Jury"?
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I have. Gee, I thought you people in the 2004 GM Monaro Glee Club were supposed to be experts on Pontiacs. Guess not. Oh and BTW, it was a LeMans, not a Tempest. Read my post. Go to Cars-On-Line.com and there are 2 of these for sale being advertised as 70 GTO's. Ultimategto.com has a seperate section for them as well. Given the # of people that try to sell these as GTOs is why I made the distinction of 1970 being the last desireable model year with the Endura Bumper only.

Nickv · #86 12-01-2004, 08:26 PM

The "Jury" car I believe was the brainchild of a Canadian car dealer.

But, what's your story Mr. Monaro? You seem like an angry little boy.

red70goat · #87 12-01-2004, 09:00 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by Nickv:
The "Jury" car I believe was the brainchild of a Canadian car dealer.

But, what's your story Mr. Monaro? You seem like an angry little boy. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yeah, I'm pissed. I've had 3 GTOs: a 66 .vert, 68, and a 70. Still have the 70. I've been patiently waiting for GM to give us a modern day GTO with some subtle retro cues and they give us a Monaro????.....and worse yet there are people that actually call this an achievement. You're right: Bob Lutz is abusing his priveledge to be stupid.

Tripower455 · #88 12-01-2004, 10:29 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by whatza monaro??:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by Tripower455:
[QUOTE]

How many people have even heard of an obscure, dealer installed Tempest option called "The Jury"?
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I have. Gee, I thought you people in the 2004 GM Monaro Glee Club were supposed to be experts on Pontiacs. Guess not. Oh and BTW, it was a LeMans, not a Tempest. Read my post. Go to Cars-On-Line.com and there are 2 of these for sale being advertised as 70 GTO's. Ultimategto.com has a seperate section for them as well. Given the # of people that try to sell these as GTOs is why I made the distinction of 1970 being the last desireable model year with the Endura Bumper only. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I may not be an expert, but I do know that the endura front end was not an option on the '70 GTO, which is more than I can say for you, Mr expert.

I've been messing with GTOs and Pontiacs for over 20 years, and have only heard very casual mention of the "The Jury", dealer installed option a few times. Nobody but you would be confused by it......

The Champ · #89 12-02-2004, 04:58 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by whatza monaro??:
Mr. PHS: In 1970 a Pontiac dealership came up with the idea of offering a "Jury" model as a low buck alternative to the Judge. It had stripes, spoilers, etc. but no endura bumper.Pontiac later endorsed this a option for the '70 LeMans Pillar Sports Coupe. Many people try to sell these as GTO's. This is what I was referencing as 1970 being the last good year for the GTO and only as with the Endura Bumper. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

So, because some folks try to sell a car with a dealer installed "package" and mistakenly (or more likely - fraudulently) call a LeMans a GTO, in your opinion that makes it a GTO....

Gee, I could get rich selling LeMan's to you as GTO's - How many do you want...

They'll be GTO's to you because I told you they were...

Maybe I'll get one of those Korean built LeMans' and tell you it's a real rare GTO - I bet I could get you to pay a real premium price on that one!!!

You were mistaken originally, and trying such a lame approach in a misguieded attempt to prove you are right now only makes it so much more obvious you are wrong.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>I've had 3 GTOs: a 66 .vert, 68, and a 70. Still have the 70. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Based on the knowlege expressed at the top of this post, makes me wonder if you ever owned a GTO. Are you sure these weren't LeMans' with dealer or seller installed options that someone sold you as GTO's?

Goathead · #90 12-02-2004, 07:46 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>I do know that the endura front end was not an option on the '70 GTO, which is more than I can say for you, Mr expert.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Who really gives a s#!t about the endura bumper? Isn't that just a lame way to take the subjuct on a tangent?

I do know that if GM does not sell at least 6,000 more of these "limited edition" '04's, then this will be one more big flop for Pontiac. Way to go Lutz...

Tripower455 · #91 12-02-2004, 08:15 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by Goathead:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>I do know that the endura front end was not an option on the '70 GTO, which is more than I can say for you, Mr expert.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Who really gives a s#!t about the endura bumper? Isn't that just a lame way to take the subjuct on a tangent?

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Ask WhataMoron-o.........

RandyW · #92 12-05-2004, 07:21 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by humbler:
Man, who pissed in your cherios?

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Nobody pissed in his cereal, he just hasn't been to mommie for his daily....