2004 GTO AND ORIGINAL - Page 3 - PY Online Forums

David Jones · #41 12-14-2004, 07:08 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>"Crystal ball? Hardly, more like all I have to do is look at the rest of today's pontiac lineup. I know it is tough for you folks from Alabama to figure out....go look at a 74 Grand Prix and look at the way it looks now. Evolutionary? You tell me, see if you can figure that out."

Thats an very definitive answer. Allows you to take boths sides of the discussion. Shrewd, well in your case, probably not.

"David, if you feel the need to bash the car in this forum, be prepaired to hear it from me."

Thats the plan.

Goathead · #42 12-14-2004, 07:47 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Danny, again, Chevy didn't make the LS1. How many times do I have to tell you that? Or are you too ignorant to actually believe it?

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Once again, anything to get off the subject....

Is the Vette a continuous production and evolution by Chevrolet?

Can the same thing be said about the '04 and Pontiac?

Oh great know it all, please enlighten us.....

The Champ · #43 12-14-2004, 08:04 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by Goathead:
Is the Vette a continuous production and evolution by Chevrolet?

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

In a word, NO.

ctgross · #44 12-14-2004, 08:16 AM

Champs right, no 1983 Vetts sold to the public. So, Danny you're gonna have eat those words.LOL

Goathead · #45 12-14-2004, 08:24 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Champs right, no 1983 Vetts sold to the public. So, Danny you're gonna have eat those words.LOL

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Sorry, I did not mention the one year layoff, but it's a lot mor continuios than the GTO...

You boneheads knew what I meant...

PS: CT is a troublemaker, always has been, just as TxBobcat...

ctgross · #46 12-14-2004, 08:32 AM

Just razz'n ya Danny. I have a cousin that's owned I believe every year Vette made(except the 83) and they DID make I believe 47, just not sold to the public.

red70goat · #47 12-14-2004, 08:59 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by Goathead:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Champs right, no 1983 Vetts sold to the public. So, Danny you're gonna have eat those words.LOL

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Sorry, I did not mention the one year layoff, but it's a lot mor continuios than the GTO...

You boneheads knew what I meant...

PS: CT is a troublemaker, always has been, just as TxBobcat...

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Danny: When Champ starts blathering on about "continuos production" ( again )go to Musclecarclub.com and look up the production figures for the vehicle he is referencing. Otherwise he'll make a big deal out of it with pics, etc. We all know what you meant.

The Champ · #48 12-15-2004, 05:50 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by red70goat:
Danny: When Champ starts blathering on about "continuos production" ( again )go to Musclecarclub.com and look up the production figures for the vehicle he is referencing. Otherwise he'll make a big deal out of it with pics, etc. We all know what you meant. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

One of the things I like about Danny, is that when he's wrong, he will admit it.

Unlike you, who when proven wrong, changes the subject.

And talking about blathering, I make a completely accurate 4 word post and you call it blathering....

Danny's cool, Whatzit drools...

red70goat · #49 12-15-2004, 06:50 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by The Champ:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by red70goat:
Danny: When Champ starts blathering on about "continuos production" ( again )go to Musclecarclub.com and look up the production figures for the vehicle he is referencing. Otherwise he'll make a big deal out of it with pics, etc. We all know what you meant. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

And talking about blathering, I make a completely accurate 4 word post and you call it blathering....

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yes: Your blathering about continuos production figures on the Mustang, Corvette, blah, blah, blah, was very accurate. I never said it wasn't.

Goathead · #50 12-15-2004, 07:26 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>A lot of people knock the car, I went for a ride and was very impressed.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

John, most people knock the way GM did the car. The name, rushing it into production with no fanfare, not the strongest motor possible, bland styling etc.

In all, producing a failure with a legends name on it, coping out.

I have driven an '04 twice, and they drive great, and handle well. It has a lot of little things that would discourage me from buying one, but all in all, it's a nice car.

My opinion since the begining is that the original GTO was not just a a nice car for it's time, it was also a trend setting car. This one is not.

red70goat · #51 12-15-2004, 07:56 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by Goathead:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>A lot of people knock the car, I went for a ride and was very impressed.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

John, most people knock the way GM did the car. The name, rushing it into production with no fanfare, not the strongest motor possible, bland styling etc.

In all, producing a failure with a legends name on it, coping out.

I have driven an '04 twice, and they drive great, and handle well. It has a lot of little things that would discourage me from buying one, but all in all, it's a nice car.

My opinion since the begining is that the original GTO was not just a a nice car for it's time, it was also a trend setting car. This one is not.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yeah, what he said.

Nickv · #52 12-15-2004, 10:09 AM

RandyW · #53 12-15-2004, 10:33 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR> John, most people knock the way GM did the car. The name, rushing it into production with no fanfare, not the strongest motor possible, bland styling etc.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

The GTO almost never had the strongest engine in Pontiac's stable. Standard or optional until about '69-'70 even some of that is debatable until '71.

projectfolly · #54 12-15-2004, 11:07 AM

Great pics of the '04 and '64 !
With regard to the '04 GTO powered by the LS1/LS2, I can unerstand the complaints that the engine is a evolution of the Chevy Small Block and should not be powering a Pontiac - sort of.
The reality is that the traditional Pontiac V8 ceased production over 20 years ago.
Where the Pontiac Motors foundary and engine plant once stood that produced the engines is nothing but an empty tract of land. The days of each GM division having its very own powertrain, engineering and manufacturing are gone. With all the competitors in the automotive market now, GM has lost so much market share that they can no longer have independent divisions that compete against themselfs like in the good old days when they had over 50 percent of the market. Out of all the engines GM produces, the best one by far for the GTO is the LS1/LS2 as many here can attest to. GM powertrain is just that, GM powertrain, not Chevrolet, not Cadillac, Buick or Pontiac - just powertrain.We need to get over it and move on.

red70goat · #55 12-15-2004, 01:45 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by projectfolly:
GM powertrain, not Chevrolet, not Cadillac, Buick or Pontiac - just powertrain.We need to get over it and move on. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Believe it or not I agree. It's cool to pop open the hood of my 70 and see a distinctly Poncho blue block nestled in between the fenderwells. But that is the charm of the older cars. Given that more and more manufacturers are going to be under 1 corporate embrella then more powerplants are going to be interchangeable. As long as it does the job I'm fine with that. As far as styling: If GM can seperate themselves from the jellybean/hoodscoop/spoiler mentality that is prevalent on most cars today then we may see a GTO as the trendsetter it once was, not just another GM failure in the tradition of the Fiero,Olds, etc.

Goathead · #56 12-15-2004, 02:19 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>The GTO almost never had the strongest engine in Pontiac's stable. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>In 1964, the elimination of the previous year's Super Duty engines and modifications left performance enthusiasts with three 421 cid V8s available, rated at 320, 350, and 370 bhp.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>389 V8 335 bhp @ 5000 rpm, 431 lb-ft @ 3200 rpm. 389 V8 (3x2) 360 bhp @ 5200 <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

In 1964, you are telling me that the 421 with 10 more horses was the strongest engine in Pontiac's stable? Come on, even Champ will agree that that is splitting haires....

RandyW · #57 12-15-2004, 03:58 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by Goathead:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>The GTO almost never had the strongest engine in Pontiac's stable. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>In 1964, the elimination of the previous year's Super Duty engines and modifications left performance enthusiasts with three 421 cid V8s available, rated at 320, 350, and 370 bhp.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>389 V8 335 bhp @ 5000 rpm, 431 lb-ft @ 3200 rpm. 389 V8 (3x2) 360 bhp @ 5200 <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

In 1964, you are telling me that the 421 with 10 more horses was the strongest engine in Pontiac's stable? Come on, even Champ will agree that that is splitting haires....

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

It's not splitting hairs, it's cutting them off at the root! The so called 370 h.p. 421 in a '64 GTO was almost a second faster. There were dealers all over the country doing this for 'stock' class racing, to the point that at one time NHRA was having all GTO's checked! The two engines were fast, the '21 was just faster! You should know by now that a 10 h.p. difference in rating can mean a lot of things and does nothing to adress the big difference in torque curve.
My mom had a '65 2+2 with 421/376 (underated big time),that car ran a best of 13.65 with lots of tuning and small cheater slicks. That was very quick, but my brothers '65 GTO with Roughton Pontiac installed 421/376, with similar tuning, would run 12.90's all day. Both cars had 4.33 gears.

The Champ · #58 12-15-2004, 05:51 PM

Danny

I hate to burst your bubble, and I don't know where you got your '64 389 HP numbers, but the '64 GTO with a 4bbl had 325 HP and the tripower equipped version had 348 HP.

There is a reason that Royal Pontiac pulled the stock 389's out of the Royal Bobcats and dropped a 421 in.

I seem to remember an old adage that goes something like this...

There is no substitute for cubic inches...

Well maybe a little NOS...

Goathead · #59 12-15-2004, 07:53 PM

SOOOOOOO, you are both saying that the '64 GTO could be found with the largest, most powerfull engine that Pontiac made, HHHHHUUUUUMMMM. Go back and read the article about the Ferarri GTO VS The Pontiac GTO. Trickery run's deep.....

In conclusion, the '64 GTO could be found with the most poowerfull Pontiac motor availiable, thanks for the help guy's....

PS: Champ, you are correct sir. The #'s I posted were for the '65 GTO, not the '64, my oversite....but it could still be had with the 421...LOL

RandyW · #60 12-15-2004, 08:52 PM

Not from the factory as an rpo. I feel sure you're smart enough to have understood that, but hey, I've been wrong before!