[sdbob]

I love those 60's cars. I remember Fred's car from SS/DI and 'Rocky's Goat'(not Rodney's Goat mistake in Pontiac Ent.) Lumley and Sanderson's 61 wagon? I had a friend from Pitts who had a 61 called the 'Loose Papoose'. Phil had help converting the car to SD spec's and when I was in college at Kent Ohio I hauled 61 aluminum bumpers back to Pa. from Fred Daviison of TallmadgeOhio. Shortly after Phil sold the car to buy 70 F car. More Pictures please!

[donpontiac]

maybe someone has a better copy of this

[DF368]

Hey SDBob & All;
When you mentioned Lumley and Sanderson's '61 wagon a flood of memories came rushing out. I tried to buy a set of SD heads from them, but it never happened. We did begin to correspond quite a bit. I remember their car as a real strong runner in the lower(L/SA?) automatic classes. They were running a set of custom made 180° total tuned headers that they claimed gave them about 1.5-2.0 MPH extra on the top end. They supposedly got these from Don Gay and were going to lend them to us to try out but again it never happened. We were pretty happy with our Tyree set-up anyway. Those 180° headers made that big Pontiac sound almost like a six. Wierd. Alright, another name from the past. A good friend of mine here in upstate NY bought a 62-SD from a fellow in Ohio by the name of P.J. Heck. Anyone remember him? Later this friend sold the car to someone in Ohio. The car was black with a gold roof and was known as "Kemosabe". Good goer and nice looking car.

[donpontiac]

you mean machine gun heck???

[sdbob]

Yep I remember the Alaskan.He had one of my intakes on his car.He still owes me for the intake. Joe Mienhert was his name. I got to know him through Jim Miller who ran roundy round with many Pontiacs(seeold High Output). Yep know Phil also he bought aluminum bumper and other parts from my 63.That 62 sounds(color wise) like Fred Davisson's old car as it was black with gold roof if I remember(it's bad, memory).I was at fred's garage many times. He offered me at 19 a 62 SD car compete for $1800. The guy was in prison and there was no title! The car was a light green.Another story I told before(short version)At 15 I was offered a 62 SD for $1500. the car was owned by Tony Faulk from Greensburg Pa at the time,the car was owned originally by Knafel Pontiac, The Tin Indian. The car is in Pa as of 2004,apart. Also in 1979 I found a 63 swiss cheese car in South Hills Of Pittsburgh. I couldn't afford any of these cars. But the 63 was sold through me to Heck. price rumors approx $7000. when I found it it had a dual quad RA V in it but the 421 was in the garage. Later at Gaithersburg, POCI Conv. Bill Blair told me who owned the car in 63, Royal Pontiac! Another one got away. My wife said why didn't you take out a loan, yeah married one year and buying a used race car. talk about BS ,just sharing. Oh the Alaskan was red I remember not sure. Joe sold the car to someone who ran it without the front bumper and Jim wanted Alaskan removed.

[DF368]

That may very well have been Fred Davison that Dick Compton sold his "Kemosabe" to. I know he bought it around '66 from P. J. Heck because there was an aluminum shifter handle on the Hurst with the name "P. J. Heck" inscribed on it. Dick was (is) a dairy farmer and never had a lot of time to run that car. Always out hayin' or workin' the fields in summer. After a couple of years he had to sell it and the best he could get was to trade it to someone in Ohio (Davison?) for, I believe, a red '67 2+2. Figured he could sell the 2+2 quicker. Well it was over 2 years before he got the title straightened out on the 2+2. Boy, did he have a stash of S-D parts at one time. He had several sets of S-D heads, manifolds, carbs, exhausts, etc. I went to buy a set of Carter AFBs for another friends 62 in Syracuse and was offered a '63 bathtub intake. All of this stuff was stored in an old hen house on his farm that could've blown over in a good wind storm. Course he had a couple of good size farm dogs that probably helped and he lived 45 miles from nowhere. I think I've got a picture of "Kemosabe". If I can figure out how to upload it I will.

[DF368]

Hope this comes through. Picture of the '62 that I've been discussing.

[DF368]

Let's try it with a smaller file.

[DF368]

Just found a nice article on P. J. Heck (and others) at this link: http://www.highperformancepontiac.co...ON_PoundersII/

Apparently still racing those big Pontiacs.

[63gpstanley]

That was a great article, the '62 was awesome but the GP (such a glamour!) was almost identical to mine except for the engine.
If you have more of those type of articles or even know of books etc. I would be incredibly appreciative.

Thanks again,
Dave.

[sdbob]

Doug that sure looks like the car. fred had Proud' labeled on the car. It is in Pete's book in B/W photo. Fred won class I think in 61 with a 303HP 61 at Winternationals. Also he took his SD TA to Pomona lost final if I remember. why go to the west coast I don't know. Oh one more tidbit I talked to Fred a few years ago I think he told me his 62 was in a basement that got flooded by a river somewhere. Any more pictures? someone from Drag News should have'm, boy what memories! "if you can't dazzle'm with your brilliance,bafle'm with your bull****' I forgot Tony Faulk has an original picture of the 'Tin Indian' in his office maybe I can get a copy,and if you don't have Arnie's tape get it!! It's worth it.

[DF368]

SDBob & All;
I apologize for the quality of that picture. Should've lightened it up. This is the only picture I still have of our old '61. I'd just got back from Center Moriches down on Long Island and with the car still on the trailer I got this shot.

[donpontiac]

SUM BITCH!!! talk about a blast from the past! when i delivered the 61 white lightning car, i took a LAST picture of IT on the trailer. i've got it on 35mm print somewhere but i save all my negatives. i'll have it scanned and post it. this is a GREAT thread. i don't remember alot of the cars you guys talk about, but i love reading your posts and seeing the pix ( i think you guys must be a bit OLDER than me, tehe) . what's the biggest jpeg files these people will let us upload? the high def pic of original w/l is about 500k. will it fly? keep this thread going, i check it daily. thanks for the great stories. don

[DF368]

Don;
Thanks for the compliment. I didn't tell you guys that I was racing at 9 years old (yeah). I had to scan these in at 150dpi to keep the file small enough. That would be lousy quality for printing but apparently fine forthis website. Be cool and peace.
Doug

[63gpstanley]

Keep these pictures and stories rolling lads, they are cool. We have a few guys here that are into this sort of racing and nostalgia cars in general rather than the billet street machine type of thing.
No Pontiac race cars were around here in the sixties, not many Chevs either, but a lot of Chrysler/Plymouth cars made it down here. Lots of home built cars that get parted out when there is no more need for them so the history is lost.

Thats why its great to see this even if I wasn't even thought about back then. My dad is not quite old enough in fact.

Dave.

[donpontiac]

yea doug. me and my brothers had BIKES too!!!

[60man]

Great pics and stories. Without these "full size cars" there could be no GTO's or 'birds.
During the mid 60's I worked part time at Thayer's Sinclair in Annandale,Va. where I was exposed to the Pontiac world. There were several Pontiac's That ran under John Thayer's banner. John could tune a Pontiac.
1-Les Harris/60 Ventura********CS/A(Lil' Cloud)
2-Gene Calhoune/60 Ventura*****CS(Arapaho)
3-Nick McCauley/61 Bon.Conv.***BS(Pony Express)
4-Jack Cassedy & myself/58 coupe*FS/A
5-Lee McCenney/64 GP 421HO 4sp.BS?
6-"Pap" Cannady/58 ht***********GS/A ?

We would often meet up with Joe Perzan and his 60 wagon the "Big Bruiser" and Sam Samuels who had a 60&61 he called "Pawnee" . I remember several other Pontiac's in the area including "White Lighting" and the "Joker" owned by Charlie Malar.The big Pontiac's were a force to be reckened with!!
In addition to these cars there was even a 62 Chevy,a 62 Ford, and later Nick's 63 SS/A Mopar.

DON:Where is your yard located and it's name.

Outlaw Pontiac Racers Association"For Those Who Live The Legend"
Do it now fool! Life is short.

60 Ventura 4300# 12.38 @ 108.10 / 1.66 60'

[donpontiac]

60man, the yard is in culpeper and it's called "nutsville auto". that's right, "nutsville auto". I KNOW YOU!!! you're laughing your asp off. but i bet you remember the name. the local number is 825-8166. you know the area code. come see me. i got a couple 62 wagons i might interest you in. bedtime, y'all take care.

[60man]

Thanks Don. I'll try to hook up with you afetr this damn snow and near 0 temps go away!!!

Outlaw Pontiac Racers Association"For Those Who Live The Legend"
Do it now fool! Life is short.

60 Ventura 4300# 12.38 @ 108.10 / 1.66 60'

[Jerry H.]

Caught this post in the late stages. Unless Don Miller @ Penske was doing 2 61 SD's; he used the White Lightning to help redo and ex-Ronnie Sox 61 SD. He had bought this car just for the pedal setup for a 61 Chevy before he found out what he had. Supposedly he had the original engine put back in his own shop! He got the car about 80% done and traded it to a friend of mine. They had ton's of paperwork with it. I wanted a shot at it to finish the resto, but it was already traded to another collector/dealer who specializing in old drag cars. I'll try to keep up with its whereabouts and see if I can get some pics to post, as he is a friend also. It is supposedly a blue car.