[badlefthand]

Run a 59 for almost 14 years.Did not know about tubes etc.Changed heads several times due to rocker studs pulling out.We stayed away from machine shops back than cheaper to get $20 heads from junk yard.Never knew about reverse flow,just knew 59/60 interchanged, Did bore ,turn crank and overhauled engine in 68 or 69 studs pulled out again in 74 and I blew one of hoses off elbow,it cooked than, about 150 thou on car and it was pretty well shot any how so it went to the big pile.Wife had 60 bonney in mid to late 60s same type deal with heads.Just used what I had. The 389 was plentyfull in scrap yard.Cannot recall major problem with temp on either but would have to say the 60 had more valve trouble,I just figured she never drove it hard enough. . The 59 was one of the hot ones in early 60s .Ate most every thing up in short run and that is what it was about.I can't tell you all the paticulars because I dont know them,only can say how things were done.Run a 61 for awhile late 60,early 70s, did'nt like that one.I would say to try with out tubes see what happens,no bigger deal to put in first or later.There is a thread on py where a couple of engineers were showing what they knew about reverse flow and patting themselves on the back couple years ago.Was to much for me.I just try it to see if it fits and works.

[Bill Hanlon]

Originally Posted by badlefthand

Elbows are left and right ,wont interchange.You guys know this but looking now since following thread.

According to 1960 Pontiac Master Parts Catalog ....
55-57 elbows are 518093 on both heads except FI and A/C equipped 57 uses 524436 on passenger side
Strange, but the MPC does not list 58/59 elbows at all.

1960 GMC Master Parts Book (55-59 GMC pickups used Pontiac V8s) also lists only 518093 for both sides.

I believe they interchange just fine.

The difference is that there is a 90 degree difference in how the head mounts, making the elbow point in different directions relative to the timing cover.

[badlefthand]

Bill ,your right,once heads are reversed mounting point rotates.

[poison heart]

Interesting.

[buds56]

Took some pics today. 1st 56-316, 2nd 56 elbow on a later head lf, 3rd same elbow rf later head, 4th new 56 hd gasket used later head, 5th 56 gasket on later head gasket.

[Rocky 389]

It appears the modern heads [48's] have a little different mounting for the front water necks but that doesn't bother me..I can make water necks. Or I can modify early ones to work.
I really doubt the early water distribution tubes will even come close to fitting in the later heads but I didn't plan to use them anyway as the #48 heads didn't use water distribution tubes and they seemed to have no cooling issues....
Went out to my machinist's shop yesterday and damn! Again I forgot to take my '59 head gaskets to see if there was anyplace to drill the missing coolant holes in the #48 heads. That little detail is gonna decide whether I'm able to use the late heads on the early block and take advantage of the reverse cooling...to be continued.....

[Bill Hanlon]

My take on the coolant distribution tubes is that Pontiac would have saved the buck or two and not used them if they thought they weren't needed. I agree with Larry that a lot of the coolant would make a quick turn and exit the head into the intake manifold and right back to the thermostat & coolant temp sensor which would continue to regulate the temp at the thermostat while leaving hotter coolant sitting around in the rear of the heads.

If you decide to implement the reverse cooling without the tubes I would recommend using a hand-held IR thermometer to compare head temp at cylinders 1 & 2 with 7 & 8. Just cheap insurance.

[Rocky 389]

Bill....I think I may grab a 55-59 distribution tube and use it as a guide to see if I can duplicate it to wind around the obstacles in the later heads and try it out...we'll see. I have all the parts I want off a 57-58 engine to play with....just gotta go pick 'em up from a pontiac buddy locally...that includes those lovely early valve covers with the aluminum "Strato Streak" logos..I may use two of them on my engine....love the look.

[badlefthand]

Rocky389, I believe the answer to your post is not known If you can do as you hope, than you will have truly settled a unending debate ,not to mention the gains for Pontiac made engines and the thanks from the ones that run these old engines.Keep going,your hands on approach and enthusiasm are refreshing.

[PRC]

Has anyone actually tried to insert a water distribution tube into a later head?

[poison heart]

I don't think anyone has. That's what I have been asking.

[Bill Hanlon]

I have a '58 tube, but no late model head.

Knock the freeze plug from both ends of a late model head. Try to slip a piece of 3/4" dowel (or something about that diameter) through from one end to the other. If it won't go neither will a stock tube.

[Rocky 389]

Heh heh...this weekend I plan to go get my early [59] pontiac stuff, including the heads and distribution tubes IF....the snow isn't too deep. Big storm coming tomorrow.
I've made a deal on the #48 heads as well. We'll see what fits as soon as I get all my parts/pieces home. Then we can debate using a Lakewood scattershield on the early pontiac blocks.

[poison heart]

I don't think any aftermarket bellhousings will fit a 59 block. You might be able to make an adapter.

I'm hoping a 3/4 tube will fit. I don't see what the big deal in making your own tube is.

[badlefthand]

Whoa,Whoa,Whoa, lots of things to figure out on that 34 before scatter shield.X frame ,set back ,motor mounts,header clearance ,steering clearance,rearend,not quite as easy as a SBC. Maybe we got you to enthused.Rain here for 5 days,I got a lot of time for PY and the H.A.M.B

[poison heart]

Out of curiosity, where are you located?

Got any pics of your coupe? I just traded my Buick for a 30/31 Ford Coupe. It's a POS but it's buildable. If I build it it will be a 59 pontiac tri power with a super T10 4 speed.

[Rocky 389]

I live in a bedroom community of Omaha, Nebraska.
"Today 01:11 PM
badlefthand Whoa,Whoa,Whoa, lots of things to figure out on that 34 before scatter shield.X frame ,set back ,motor mounts,header clearance ,steering clearance,rearend,not quite as easy as a SBC. Maybe we got you to enthused.Rain here for 5 days,I got a lot of time for PY and the H.A.M.B
Today 12:56 AM "
All great issues to overcome and here's the rundown on them.
The stock "X" now has a custom center section to accomodate the T-5 tranny [already bought] ...engine setback is facilitated with an aftermarket firewall with a 5 inch recess for a big-block chevy.
Motormounts will be side-mounts using a Hurst front mount plate [already bought] and either side mounts in the rear with my Lakewood scattershield [set up to utilize 55-57 chevy rear motor mounts] or rear side-mounts using my 57 GMC bellhousing which incorporated factory mounts on either side of the housing.. This gives me 4 points to mount the engine, leaving the center portion of the engine open to help with clearance for exhaust, steering linkage and my new vega steering box.
Rearend is a great big ol Winters championship-size quickchange [already bought] . I'll be using a pair of wide-5 race wheels yet to be determined.
Here is a recent photo of the body/frame over at my buddy's body shop... Still plinking away on the 3.5" top chop.

[poison heart]

Damn that looks good. Much better than mine

Why a T5 tranny? Is that like a TKO, it has the muncie bolt pattern?

[Rocky 389]

I have 2 T-5s to choose from. One is a world-class unit from a late S-10 with a funny, weird bolt pattern. The bearing retianer fits nice and snuggly in the hole in the bellhousing so I used it as a pattern and marked new holes on the lakewood scattershield...drilled 'em and tac welded 1/2 nuts on the inside of the scattershield. I also have an '85 camaro V/8 T-5 tranny with the old common GM bolt pattern. Now I can bolt up early [chevy muncie/saginaw/T-10] transmissions to the factory-drilled bolt holes or use the late ford-style pattern trannys. Problem will be machining up a block-plate with starter mounting holes. I can use my trusty GMC iron bellhousing as a pattern for the new block plate,

[poison heart]

Oh OK, but still, why a T5? I thought they barely hold up in V6 mustangs, how is it going to handle the torque of your Pontiac even though it is a light car??? I have no experience with T5s just curious

What year is your GMC bellhousing and why don't you just use that?