[Safari Larry]

Originally Posted by twooldgoats

This is the cowl tag off my '60 2-dr HT. It was equipped with power steering, AM radio and a 2bbl engine.

Jim

Interesting, it doesn't have the date code, the third letter in the PAINT code or the stray number. your '60 is from the South Gate CA (code BC) plant.

What is the Pontiac build plant code, you previously told me S but there is no S plant. I would expect C.

[MOJO Catalina]

Originally Posted by Safari Larry

Thanks MOJO for the data tag photos. I added those and SHARK's tag to my list of observed codes.

I'm glad I could help out with the research.. and don't worry about any hijacking. I sometimes meander off course along the way too. It's makes things interesting and sometimes leads to audience participation..

If any of you fellas have an opinion on anything I'm doing or proposing for this wagon project feel free to chime in.. I certainly don't know everything about everything and have done more stupid things than I care to admit.. I rode a bike of a dock one time and the water only turned out to be about 8 inches deep.. wasn't expecting that.. the pain.. the pain..
Anyway...

Thanks for the input and continued encouragement.

I'll get those "glamour shots" done as soon as I can Larry..
Beautiful wagon? You got your beer goggles on fer sher dude.
Maybe by the spring I'll have this turd polished up a bit...

[Safari Larry]

I'm glad you could help too MOJO. Thanks!

Regarding hijacking your thread... It is not just about hijacking, it is also about putting things where they belong so they can be found later. I find it instructive and interesting looking through old threads but when unrelated info gets into a thread then it gets lost. I even looked though my old thread to look up things I've discovered and forgotten. This isn't just about the current discussion, we are creating a history of our discussions and they need to be somewhat organized. But getting sidetracked on a thread is OK, we don't want to get too rigid. I'm getting sidetracked now, back to the subject...

Yes, beautiful wagon! Beauty is in the eyes of the beholder. I'm not the only one out here that sees your wagon as beautiful -- and you get our respect for saving it. If your wagon was in my garage, I might not see it as quite so beautiful as I would be overwhelmed with things to do.

[Engine-Ear]

Originally Posted by MOJO Catalina

If any of you fellas have an opinion on anything I'm doing or proposing for this wagon project feel free to chime in..

Like I posted earlier, leave the paint and patina make it a low cost(-ish) driver. Four speeds are great but I can't recall the last '60+ I have seen on the road that still has its 3-on-the-tree in service! ...my $0.02.

And I agree, that is a beautiful Safari!

[MOJO Catalina]

Originally Posted by Engine-Ear

Like I posted earlier, leave the paint and patina make it a low cost(-ish) driver. Four speeds are great but I can't recall the last '60+ I have seen on the road that still has its 3-on-the-tree in service! ...my $0.02.

And I agree, that is a beautiful Safari!

Yeah, I know that's right..
I DO think it's a beauty and I'm certainly thrilled at the price.
I've had a couple of people try to buy it already..
Apparently the pedals, bellhousing and clutch components are worth about $2000 to some folks.
Ain't no way I'll let someone harvest the parts and crush this wagon though..

"If it ain't broke don't break it," is what I always say... I'll definitley be getting the car running and stopping before tearing anything else down and if it shifts OK the 3 on the tree will stay.. Even if it doesn't I suppose they are fairly easy to come by.. I just checked on floor shifters and would rather not have to spend $2-300 on one.

Hell, I haven't even driven the car yet, that's why I'm just a little bit down on it right now.
I should have the whole day Friday to put the lid back on and try to fire it up again.
New points and plugs too.
I've cracked tougher nuts, this one is just taking a bit longer than some others.

[MOJO Catalina]

Originally Posted by Safari Larry

I'm glad you could help too MOJO. Thanks!

Regarding hijacking your thread... It is not just about hijacking, it is also about putting things where they belong so they can be found later. I find it instructive and interesting looking through old threads but when unrelated info gets into a thread then it gets lost. I even looked though my old thread to look up things I've discovered and forgotten. This isn't just about the current discussion, we are creating a history of our discussions and they need to be somewhat organized. But getting sidetracked on a thread is OK, we don't want to get too rigid. I'm getting sidetracked now, back to the subject...

Yes, beautiful wagon! Beauty is in the eyes of the beholder. I'm not the only one out here that sees your wagon as beautiful -- and you get our respect for saving it. If your wagon was in my garage, I might not see it as quite so beautiful as I would be overwhelmed with things to do.

Everything stated above is true of course... otherwise we'd be like a bunch of old guys wandering around in the lingerie department..

[1967Tempest]

Originally Posted by Engine-Ear

Like I posted earlier, leave the paint and patina make it a low cost(-ish) driver. Four speeds are great but I can't recall the last '60+ I have seen on the road that still has its 3-on-the-tree in service! ...my $0.02.

And I agree, that is a beautiful Safari!

I have to agree. Most cars are OVER restored. Then you get scared to drive it. Fix the holes, spray clear over the patina and driver her!!!

IMHO, it is better to have a 100% reliable driver than a trailer queen that needs constant attention.

P.S. The Safari is an early SUV!!!

[MOJO Catalina]

Well, after cleaning up the rockers and nuts on the driver's side it's become obvious that the valve train is too worn to stay employed. Before I took them off I could see most were slapping around and not properly aligned with the valves but now, looking at the wear on the rocker and on the end of the valves, it's clear that there's just too much play and wear in the works for these to function adequately. Some of the ball ends are worn so much they have "seated" themselves into the oval rocker holes. With all this play I bet some of these valves were barely opening if at all. It would be a waste of the valley pan and intake manifold gaskets to put this back together just to see if it'll run... It probably will but noisily and poorly..





I bet the valves were tapping like Sammy Davis Jr. before it started running so badly they gave up on it. I'll be pulling the heads off ASAP for a closer look at the cylinder walls. At this point I'm hoping the bottom end will still be OK so I can just use the heads from the A1 engine and leave the original block with the dished piston in the car.

I'm thinking out loud now, but maybe I should reinstall the rockers and do a compression test before I pull the heads off? I definitely had blow-back when I covered each spark plug hole with my thumb so maybe no burnt valves...

Any opinions on that one?

[60 SHARK]

I JUST GOT UP TO SPEED WITH YA, HERE IS MY 2CENTS, YOUR IN THIS DEEP NOW, JUST YANK THE HEADS NOW, YOU HAVE OTHERS IF HE CYLINDERS ARE GOOD, IF NOT, IT WILL BE A EASY PULL TO SWAP THE ENGINE, JUST MY IDEA.

[Bill Eveland]

If the top end is that bad, what do you suppose the rest of the engine is like? I'd stop now unless you have alot of free time to waste. I'd put your other engine in and save this for a rebuild down the road.

[Jack Gifford]

Originally Posted by MOJO Catalina

... maybe I should reinstall the rockers and do a compression test before I pull the heads off...

You'd be better off doing a leakdown test. Cranking compression is so dependent on valve timing events (mainly intake closing) that you probably wouldn't learn much.

[MOJO Catalina]

Anybody out there ever have an engine that was this bad up top but ended up being OK down below, meaning good rings and bearings?
I'm thinking maybe the oil pump is all gakked up and may be a cause or effect of all thing involved..

Pulling this one out seems inevitable but I'm still going to remove the heads first to see how bad it is and get some photos for this thread.

Now, I'm no expert at engine swaps, but I have pulled and swapped a few engines with automatic transmissions attached and I do own an engine hoist..

Since this is a manual shift car, should I drop the trans out before pulling everything, attach the bell housing and clutch components to the "new" engine, drop it in and then install the trans?

How would you (meaning any of you) do it?

[stevep]

Originally Posted by MOJO Catalina

Anybody out there ever have an engine that was this bad up top but ended up being OK down below, meaning good rings and bearings?
I'm thinking maybe the oil pump is all gakked up and may be a cause or effect of all thing involved..

Pulling this one out seems inevitable but I'm still going to remove the heads first to see how bad it is and get some photos for this thread.

Now, I'm no expert at engine swaps, but I have pulled and swapped a few engines with automatic transmissions attached and I do own an engine hoist..

Since this is a manual shift car, should I drop the trans out before pulling everything, attach the bell housing and clutch components to the "new" engine, drop it in and then install the trans?

How would you (meaning any of you) do it?

If you have a known good running motor, just put it in.

[MOJO Catalina]

Originally Posted by stevep

If you have a known good running motor, just put it in.

What's the best way to remove the one that's in it?
Should I take the trans out first or just disconnect the linkage, speedo cable and clutch and pull it all as a unit, then attach it all to the other engine and drop it back in?

Any clearance issues or other tricks to it?

[Engine-Ear]

Originally Posted by MOJO Catalina

What's the best way to remove the one that's in it?
Should I take the trans out first or just disconnect the linkage, speedo cable and clutch and pull it all as a unit, then attach it all to the other engine and drop it back in?

Any clearance issues or other tricks to it?

Speaking from the perspective of a '62, engine removal without the bell housing & trans will be a lot easier if you can. Remove the hood (scribe where the hinges attach for easy alignment upon reattachment), ground straps, motor mount bolts, distributor and carb. Use a typical 'cherry picker' with about 2' of 3/8" link chain attached to the intake bolts at the pass rear and driver front corners.

You may also want to remove the brass pipe plugs on the sides of the block (expect to jam a small screw driver into the hole that has skinned over revealing old coolant) and drain the motor oil to help avoid unexpected puddles.

You should be home free.

Of course, this is where your foot is on the slippery slope of a restoration! Good luck, have fun and take pics!

[stevep]

Originally Posted by MOJO Catalina

What's the best way to remove the one that's in it?
Should I take the trans out first or just disconnect the linkage, speedo cable and clutch and pull it all as a unit, then attach it all to the other engine and drop it back in?

Any clearance issues or other tricks to it?

It would probably be easier for you to remove the engine and trans in 1 piece.

[60 SHARK]

I HAVE TO AGREE, IT HAS BEEN EASER FOR ME ALSO TO PULL ENG AND TRANS TOGETHER, THEN YOU CAN CHANGE THAT NEGLECTED CLUTCH ALSO. EASY TO DO ON THE BENCH! BUT MAKE SURE YOU GET A FRIEND (A STRONG ONE) TO HELP WITH THE HOOD. THE REST YOU COULD DO SOLO IF YOU LIKE.

[MOJO Catalina]

OK so I guess putting the new engine back in would be the same in reverse..
Anybody know what a new clutch would cost for this old gal?
Are they readily available for a Pontiac or is there some Chevy cross-reference number?

[60 SHARK]

CHECK OUT THIS SITE FOR PRICES. http://www.rockauto.com/catalog/x,ca...,parttype,1993
NO NEED TO USE CHEVY.

[MOJO Catalina]

Not bad.. About $115 shipped..
I've never bought anything through them.
Do you (or anybody else) have experience with the parts from Rock Auto?
Quality parts? Hold up OK?