[Bill Morgan]

Mike, you know I wouldn't sell you just any old GP!

Who would have guessed that such a fascinating tale would come from a car that was sitting in a West Texas pasture and being used as a weed stash for a 15-year-old longhair?

[mike nixon]

Had to bring that up didn't you Morgan? I hadn't mentioned that part of the deal!

[65WJ]

Oh please do tell.. Inquiring minds want to know.

patrick

[mike nixon]

Maybe in person Patrick, Maybe in person!

[65WJ]

[64catdroptop]

Ya',.... MIKE!!!,.... Please fill us in (or maybe Bill could care to elaborate...eh?)

Either way, it's a very nice ride and this car is in damn great shape - stash or not

Did you see the cover of the new Smokes?

-r-

[mike nixon]

Saw that 2+2, read the article, showed it to Jen and she may come around yet!

Tray was all wound up.


WE looked at that car in Dayton. Nice original peice.

No comment from me on the find.

Mike

[Deadhead]

Originally Posted by Bill Morgan

Mike, you know I wouldn't sell you just any old GP!

Who would have guessed that such a fascinating tale would come from a car that was sitting in a West Texas pasture and being used as a weed stash for a 15-year-old longhair?

Now, I am SURE anything in that car was medicinal.

With what we now know, here is what the evidence adds up to:

This car was special ordered by Willie Nelson. He changed his mind about it being a gold car (special order color he chose: 'Acapulco Gold'). Right at the last minute he got paranoid called up & had them change it to white (so it would look more like a police cruiser). After they got wise to his new ride, he had to abandon it out in a field. Being a stoner, he forgot & left some behind.

Had Mike only known...

[Deadhead]

At the risk of really ticking off one of our moderators, I am bringing this back up after making a discovery that is relevant to this thread. Might match up with others down the road.

I am preparing to cut up a '66 Bonneville parts car I have. It is nearly stripped bare. I was walking around trying to figure out the best way to attack it, and something caught my attention. Under the extensions on the rear quarters and tail panel the rear of the car was originally painted Iris Mist even though it ended up as a Martinique Bronze car. I have not seen any evidence of Iris paint on any other part of the car. While I am cutting, I will try to figure out if the rest of the car was the same color originally before leaving the factory. Front has red primer under the gold. Can not see anything in the door jambs or in the quarter window area yet.

[My442]

At the BOP Framingham plant, I saw a car that had two different quater panels on it. It was a '73 Pontiac LeMans.

One side was the colonade window (triangle shaped), and the other side had the Cutlass window (rectangular). It was going into final trim.

The car was pulled off the line, and they cut off the wrong quarter and welded on a new one.

[Ragtop Man]

A Tiger Gold GP built early in the production cycle (August) would not be that long after pilot build. Tiger Gold was a special order color, too, which required special processing in the plant, an extra cost item, too.

According to one of the seasoned plant guys, special paint cars were sprayed by a guy (or guys) who intercepted the car in process, carrying tanks of the body color into the booth. In other words, someone really screwed up. Did they just shoot the wrong car and let a GTO become Cameo White? That's my guess.

Someone looked up the sheet when it came out of the oven, and after some Reverse Dutch screaming, pulled the body into the aisle.

Keith will have to weigh in here, but I'm sure some clip-on tie plant supervisor did some quick footwork and after some clipboard algebra found a AC/4sp GP scheduled later... giving Fisher enough time to rub down and re-shoot the body, then insert into the schedule on a later day.

FWIW as a scale modeler, I am geeked about the idea of building a Tiger Gold '65 with Hurst Mags and redlines!

[mike nixon]

Looks familiar Bruce. That also looks like the OE welds on the tailpanel. was there evidence of a long clip being done elsewhere?

[Deadhead]

No, but there is a repair that could have been from a factory body injury down low in one of the quarters. I wondered if They banged it, noticed when it got to paint, then pulled it from the line, bondo'd it and sent it back through. It was definitely all factory stuff.

[Ragtop Man]

If the repair is under the Tiger Gold, or over the Gold and under the Ivory, then it is most likely a factory fix.

Stuff got banged up in the Pontiac plant all the time -- a former neighbor of mine was a GMI (now Kettering U) grad whose first intern work (OJT) was at the Pontiac plant. According to him, it was carefully managed chaos, keeping production in line with the schedule, getting everything to the right place. And, FWIW, Tom Goad built the first Turbo 20th Mechanical prototype from a 3.8L Turbo MFI GN that either got pancaked before shipment, or made it to the truck but got turned into a convertible by a low bridge.

The theory that it got too far along for light repair is probably good, especially if they had another body that could be slotted in for the Tiger Gold job and quickly painted. The gold would be a bear to match in repair, most likely, and would require a significant repaint, more than they would typically plan.

With more time, they could square up the damaged body, give it a good rub down and rinse, then send it back through the booth for the Cameo White, assuming the firewall and trans tunnel were correct for the application (air, 4-speed, etc)

BTW my friend was on the job the night in the late '80s when they ran the FBI / ATF Turbo Regals at Pontiac. They sent most everyone home on second shift but supervision and salaried, and installed computers that were numbered and distributed by a federal agent (!) for these particular units. Wonder whatever happened to those cars? Is there a crusher in DC or AZ with leftover Buick bits in it?

[Deadhead]

Originally Posted by Ragtop Man

BTW my friend was on the job the night in the late '80s when they ran the FBI / ATF Turbo Regals at Pontiac. They sent most everyone home on second shift but supervision and salaried, and installed computers that were numbered and distributed by a federal agent (!) for these particular units. Wonder whatever happened to those cars? Is there a crusher in DC or AZ with leftover Buick bits in it?

I think I saw some of those in Dead show parking lots LOL.

On the car I pictured it looks like they began painting the Iris Mist, quit, did the repair and then did the whole car in M. Bronze. Might have red primered the entire car with the Q extensions etc. on there first before the gold. I don't recall seeing that on other cars before, but this one has it factory under the gold.

[Deadhead]

Hey guys,

Was looking for some papers today and ran across these in my files. They are from the car with the Iris Mist bits on the rear. Matches up with Ragtop Man's post. Judging by the notes, it looks like the whole back end must have been replaced with the rear from a car that was not a Bonneville and had to be changed for the tail-lights. Red primer over-spray on these card stock papers too.

Just thought that it might be interesting to see the work order. Not sure you can see them, but there are boxes punched out with numbered hole punches. Sorry, but I forget where I found this in the car. Have both build sheets too. Car is in pieces in a pile waiting for scrap $ to go up.

[Ragtop Man]

Well this does bring up an interesting point, or several.

I'm wondering based on the paperwork found in the Iris Mist car if the Gold GP didn't come up lacking for something in the bodywork, and got sent into the do-over pile. A custom color early in the run would likely have been for someone with some level of influence...

What we might be able to do, if someone is good friends with Jim Mattison would be to search the South Gate Pontiac Grand Prix punch cards for a special-order Tiger Gold build sheet to see what ELSE was going out the door on that beast.

My thinking: that would really narrow the field; GP with Tiger Gold would be a small handful of builds over the whole year, probably only one or two in the time frame we're talking about. It would predate the C-C build date; at 50 or so jobs per hour, and one thousand units approximate difference in the chalked on sequence number... who knows what might turn up at PHS.

Would have been one sexy beast~!

[Ragtop Man]

Ya gotta be some kind of a bore to reply to your own posts, but I do it all the time:confu sed:

But I did find this on line at Wildaboutcars.com:

http://wildaboutcarsonline.com/cgi-b...=9990401240631

It's a map of the bridge from the Fisher Body plant on Baldwin Ave. to Plant #8, where final assembly took place. There are two verrrrrry interesting things to notice:

1. Note where the tag is attached to the body before being sent to the body bank, after all the painting and exterior trimming is done.

2. Note where the floor shift holes were cut -- not at Fisher, at least not in Pontiac.

Once completed, the bodies went to the body bank, which would hold about 250 shells, which would then get matched up for a ride down to the assembly line.

I was surprised at one thing: The interiors were not trimmed at Fisher, even though, nominally, that is part of the body and all interior trim was (I thought) Fisher's responsibility.

[Keith Seymore]

Originally Posted by Ragtop Man

Ya gotta be some kind of a bore to reply to your own posts, but I do it all the time...

I do it all the time, too

Originally Posted by Ragtop Man

It's a map of the bridge from the Fisher Body plant on Baldwin Ave. to Plant #8, where final assembly took place. There are two verrrrrry interesting things to notice:

1. Note where the tag is attached to the body before being sent to the body bank, after all the painting and exterior trimming is done.

Map is from Eric White's "Made in Pontiac" series.

Are you referring to the VIN tag? I thought this was well understood - although - there is variation from plant to plant as to where this task was accomplished.

Originally Posted by Ragtop Man

2. Note where the floor shift holes were cut -- not at Fisher, at least not in Pontiac.

Correct. Pontiac floor holes look like they were created with an axe. Floor cutouts in some of the other plants, like Kansas City, occurred on the Fisher Body side and are much more refined by comparison.

Originally Posted by Ragtop Man

Once completed, the bodies went to the body bank, which would hold about 250 shells, which would then get matched up for a ride down to the assembly line.

Almost correct: "matched" is a bit of a misnomer, in that the chassis/front end sheet metal was not started until the specific body was released from the bank. At any point prior to that a body from any one of the lanes (or the aisles) could be pulled, based on Final Assembly work load or part availability. Once the body was selected and pulled the General Assembly/Final Assembly sequence was set, specific part usages were broadcast and there was no turning back (barring the most serious of circumstances).

Originally Posted by Ragtop Man

YaI was surprised at one thing: The interiors were not trimmed at Fisher, even though, nominally, that is part of the body and all interior trim was (I thought) Fisher's responsibility.

I'm not sure what you mean here. Bodies, including all the interior trim, carpet, seats, radios, door trim, headliners, glass - everything inside - were completely finished at Fisher. The divisions had no responsibility (or interest) in what went on behind that firewall. So - I'm not quite sure what you are seeing that would make you think "interiors were not trimmed at Fisher".

Bob - I recall you are in Birmingham or Bloomfield - I would be happy to show you around the old facility when it is convenient for you and we could talk through the process in person. Maybe over the holidays would be a good time to do that (before they tear it all down).

K

[Ragtop Man]

Keith -- would love to take you up on the offer. Stop by the Gridiron too...

The reason I asked about the trim was that wouldn't you need to have the carpet out and trim, etc, before gasaxing the floor for a shifter?

Also, the shot in the "Made in Pontiac" story showed bodies in the bank that did not appear to have IP's in them...

BOB