[GregP]

I'm ordering new front springs from Ames and was reading that front spring spacers and insulators were not originally installed during production. It says they are intended for use for those who wish to have a cushion between the springs and control arms. So assuming this is correct, wouldn't the spacers change the height or is it insignifigant? Does the spacer help keep a newly restored control arm from being scratched up? Does it help the ride or handling at all?
Thanks

[north]

factory coils were milled so they seat flat and flush into the frame pocket, aftermarket and repro springs do not so they always sit wrong. Not sure which spacers you are referring to but any spacer will raise the car. Generally speaking most replacement front springs are already too high so spacers are not a good idea.

[1funride]

Anything you place between the spring and a-arm will raise the front of the car 2X the thickness of the added item. Yes 2X, not the thickness of the item added.
I just added a 3/8" aluminum spacer to raise front of my car 3/4".

[burd]

Insulators we’re factory. Their in the parts book, and on the exploded view
I picked up a few sets, I think their disco’d now.

[Verdoro 68]

I vaguely remember pulling some crusty aluminum insulators out of the bottom of the control arms of my first car. I remember they were c-shaped and one was cracked in two. Who knows if they were original. I don't think my car now had them. If it did, I tossed them when I first did the suspension years ago.

[burd]

I’m talking he rubber ones

[chrisp]

Originally Posted by burd

I’m talking he rubber ones

Is it he or the rubber ones ?

[Sirrotica]

The factory used rubber isolators on the upper flat ground portion of the spring, between the spring, and the frame. The lower end cant move as it sits in a notch in the lower control arm, the upper does twist, hence the need for a isolator at the point of movement. I always use a couple pieces of electrical tape to hold them in position when reinstalling the spring.

The bottom never used any spacers from the factory, the aluminum ones that have been described are a crutch when a car came without factory air, and aftermarket air was installed. If the front sat too low they could keep the same springs and install the aluminum spacers. It's not the correct way to add on air conditioning, but aftermarket parts aren't always engineered the same as the factory engineered systems.

Those spacers could also be used to correct sagging springs, but if you're going to all the trouble to pull the springs to install the spacers, why would you not install new springs when you've already removed the springs from the car? The expensive part is labor, the springs were pretty cheap back then. Moog springs were about $20-25 dollars a pair, at the time.

I almost forgot, when jacking the front ends up back in the 70s, if new springs didn't get the front end high enough, people would resort to hard rubber, or the aluminum spacers to get more height. A lot of half assed stuff was done to get cars jacked up back then, 2x4s in, and under springs is one of the butchered fixes I've seen, along with air shocks that ripped the crossmember mounts out. Aluminum twist in spring spacers, spring spacers made with threaded rod and steel saddles, to push the coils further apart. Tons of ways to get your car raised up, without spending the money to do it correctly.

[1funride]

Global West makes cast aluminum spacers in varying thickness to add some height. When you install aluminum manifolds, aluminum heads, light weight starters...suddenly your car sits an inch or more higher. The MOOG spring charts are good, but its a gamble on what ride height you end up with, and some of the springs aren't available right now. So you buy and hope for that desired ride height. In my case, I was about 3/4" too low. The springs are pretty stiff so no problem there, I added the 3/8" spacer and raised it the desired 3/4"....perfect. Looks fantastic. The cast aluminum spacers install below the springs, and it is a 2X thickness equation.

The "claimed" aftermarket lowering springs are hit or miss, many variables involved., they likely assume a stock weight setup.

[taktikian]

I also added the front spacers. I put 28" tires on the rear and the car was no longer level. I did not want to gamble on ride height with new springs. The spacers did the trick and best of all the results were predictable. Paul

[Sirrotica]

FWIW, the ratio is .6 to one, so 1/2 inch at the spring is 1.2 inches at the wheel, just in case you want the correct exact ratio to figure spacer to wheel gain. I can't remember where I saw that in print, could be one of Herb Adams articles many years ago. I've always figured it out with the .6 ratio

[1funride]

Buyer beware, the front spring spacers add 2X height from all my prior research and I can tell you from experince on my firebird it was exactly 2X. The rear is 1:1. Here is some info from Global West:

Global West Tech Tip

Selecting a coil spring spacer for the front end has a simple formula you must remember, one-inch at the spring equals two-inches at the body. This applies to all Ford and GM models we deal with.

Example 1: If you want to raise your 1969 Camaro one-inch in the front, purchase two 1/2-inch spacers (one for each side). They install between the lower arm and spring. Your ride height will go up one full inch.

Example 2: If you want to raise the front of your GTO 1-1/2 inches because you cut too much off the spring, using the formula “one at the spring is two at the body,” a ¾ inch spacer is required to lift the front end up 1 ½ inches. Ford vehicles work the same way.

Rear spring spacers are available in polyurethane or aluminum. All of the rear spacers that raise the vehicle are made out of aluminum. Polyurethane is used for replacing the factory spring cushion. The formula for the rear GM models is one to one. Therefore, if you want to raise the car ¾ ths of an inch, use a ¾ inch spacer.

[Sirrotica]

Originally Posted by 1funride

Buyer beware, the front spring spacers add 2X height from all my prior research and I can tell you from experince on my firebird it was exactly 2X. The rear is 1:1. Here is some info from Global West:

Global West Tech Tip

Selecting a coil spring spacer for the front end has a simple formula you must remember, one-inch at the spring equals two-inches at the body. This applies to all Ford and GM models we deal with.

Example 1: If you want to raise your 1969 Camaro one-inch in the front, purchase two 1/2-inch spacers (one for each side). They install between the lower arm and spring. Your ride height will go up one full inch.

Example 2: If you want to raise the front of your GTO 1-1/2 inches because you cut too much off the spring, using the formula “one at the spring is two at the body,” a ¾ inch spacer is required to lift the front end up 1 ½ inches. Ford vehicles work the same way.

Rear spring spacers are available in polyurethane or aluminum. All of the rear spacers that raise the vehicle are made out of aluminum. Polyurethane is used for replacing the factory spring cushion. The formula for the rear GM models is one to one. Therefore, if you want to raise the car ¾ ths of an inch, use a ¾ inch spacer.

I'm referencing front suspension, not rear, BTW. Of course the spring placement is the same as it's on the rear axle and is linear of a 1 to 1 ratio in the rear.

I'll believe a GM engineers statistic first, but that's just me. I've been changing automotive springs long before Global West was even around so the reader can choose to believe whoever they want to believe......... We're splitting hairs here .2 of an inch, or roughly 3/16s of an inch at the wheel.

All you have to do is look at the pivot points on a front lower control arm and the placement of the spring, you'll notice the the spring placement isn't exactly half the length of the control arm. But, maybe my eyes are lying to me.........:no idea It's roughly a 60/40 split by my eyes, which is what I originally said, not 50/50.

Here's a GM lower control arm, just looking at it I can easily see the spring placement isn't in the middle to make it a 2 to 1 ratio, but you decide......... Visual aid here, and math doesn't lie.

[1funride]

The angular displacement around the curve is greater than the linear displacement, in the end it works out very close to 2X the spacer up front, but i'm not counting haris either

[77 Canamman]

Since it's too hard for "Mr. Helpful" to offer part numbers or any other solid information, here are the aforementioned front coil spring insulators:

GM 15597425



Per my dealer, they are still available $11.95 list each.

[GregP]

Thanks for all the information. Just to clarify, my car is a 69. Ames online catalog says insulators were not used from factory. Is that correct or were they used for the 69 GTO's?
Anyone have any problems with Ames front springs? I read on the forum that one person had good luck with them and ride height was good. (nothing about insulators).

[OG68]

There were no spacers, rubber or otherwise, on my 68 when the chassis was rebuilt for the first time two years ago.

[north]

Front spring Insulators were last specified for factory installation on first generation Tempests (61-63), they were probably used to deal with the objectionable vibration of the slant 4. There is no factory documentation of them used in any other 60’s pontiacs during assembly.

As for front spring spacers they did list three service part numbers to be used as needed on all 64 and up models by dealers when needed but not for factory install. They were 9785776 for 1/4”, 3789664 for 3/8” and 9785777 for 1/2”. All were rubber.

The only specified For factory install spacers were for 59-60 full-size cars with AC and another for 61-63 Tempests with AC. Subsequent to those years of application the factory instead created AC specific springs negating the need for spacers.

All this being said doesn’t mean that dealers didn’t add spacers to new cars at client request or that even the factory didn’t perhaps also sometimes install them to address a car that didn’t sit within tolerances or because of shortages of correct springs.