#21  
Old 06-06-2021, 08:22 PM
roger1's Avatar
roger1 roger1 is offline
Chief Ponti-yacker
 
Join Date: Aug 2020
Location: San Angelo, TX
Posts: 765
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by dataway View Post
What's a good method for removing old filler ... course paper on a DA? I think it's just skim coating in a few places, no dents or puller holes or anything on the inside.

Is black harder to use with a guide coat of some sort?
Old filler can be removed with a DA with 80 grit just fine if it's not too thick.

I don't suggest you block your SPI epoxy primer except for on the nose and I don't think you will need a guide coat for that. But you could using a light dusting of rattle can lacquer in white. Just make sure you get it all off.

__________________
'69 GTO Convertible - Acquired October 2020. An all original project car. Restomod is underway PROJECT THREAD
'83 Chevy Choo Choo SS El Camino - LT1 350/4L60e, Owned for 30 Years, completed 2nd restomod in 2018 PHOTO
2019 BMW 440ix - Twin turbo I6, 8spd auto. PHOTO
'55 Chevy Bel Air Sport Coupe - Ram Jet 350 / T56 Magnum 6spd, Restomod Completed Sept. 2012, Sold Sept. 2021 PHOTO
The Following User Says Thank You to roger1 For This Useful Post:
  #22  
Old 06-06-2021, 08:30 PM
roger1's Avatar
roger1 roger1 is offline
Chief Ponti-yacker
 
Join Date: Aug 2020
Location: San Angelo, TX
Posts: 765
Default

I also suggest getting a gallon of 2K urethane primer from SPI when you buy your epoxy. Then you can spray your body after the epoxy so you are still in the re-coat window. No scuffing this way. I always try and avoid having to scuff epoxy with Scotchbrite when I can. It isn't a whole lot of fun. It also saves you on epoxy since after the re-coat window, it needs to have an additional coat of epoxy applied after the scuffing before anything else is applied on it.

Btw. Have you ever read Barry's "Perfect Paintjob" write-up on the SPI website? I suggest you do that.

https://www.southernpolyurethanes.com/perfectpaintjob

__________________
'69 GTO Convertible - Acquired October 2020. An all original project car. Restomod is underway PROJECT THREAD
'83 Chevy Choo Choo SS El Camino - LT1 350/4L60e, Owned for 30 Years, completed 2nd restomod in 2018 PHOTO
2019 BMW 440ix - Twin turbo I6, 8spd auto. PHOTO
'55 Chevy Bel Air Sport Coupe - Ram Jet 350 / T56 Magnum 6spd, Restomod Completed Sept. 2012, Sold Sept. 2021 PHOTO

Last edited by roger1; 06-06-2021 at 08:36 PM.
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to roger1 For This Useful Post:
  #23  
Old 06-06-2021, 10:55 PM
dataway's Avatar
dataway dataway is offline
Ultimate Warrior
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Saratoga NY
Posts: 8,922
Default

So you usually use a 2K primer over the epoxy and block sand that?

Bear in mind this is a driver quality paint job I'll be doing and in my case probably the less steps involved the less chances I have to screw it up

Thanks much for all the info, it's keeping my printer busy.

  #24  
Old 06-06-2021, 11:22 PM
roger1's Avatar
roger1 roger1 is offline
Chief Ponti-yacker
 
Join Date: Aug 2020
Location: San Angelo, TX
Posts: 765
Default

Yes.
I don't recommend blocking the SPI primer on the body. Although it does sand well, it doesn't block near as easy as a polyester or 2K urethane. It also takes longer. After spraying epoxy, it really takes 2 days before it doesn't load your paper at all. A 2K primer can be blocked after waiting an hour or 2.
I recall Barry once saying "Blocking out a car using SPI epoxy only is just for the very experienced".

__________________
'69 GTO Convertible - Acquired October 2020. An all original project car. Restomod is underway PROJECT THREAD
'83 Chevy Choo Choo SS El Camino - LT1 350/4L60e, Owned for 30 Years, completed 2nd restomod in 2018 PHOTO
2019 BMW 440ix - Twin turbo I6, 8spd auto. PHOTO
'55 Chevy Bel Air Sport Coupe - Ram Jet 350 / T56 Magnum 6spd, Restomod Completed Sept. 2012, Sold Sept. 2021 PHOTO
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to roger1 For This Useful Post:
  #25  
Old 06-06-2021, 11:47 PM
MUSLCAH MUSLCAH is offline
Ultimate Warrior
 
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: N.H.
Posts: 1,920
Default

You have 2 choices for priming BARE METAL

#1 ....2 component “Self Etching “ Primer ...DuPont has 615 with an activator 616 mixed 1 to 1

#2 ...is a 2 component Epoxy Primer

And a 2k primer is not for use ovah bare metal.....it is used ovah self etching or epoxy primer as a high build primer / surfacer that sands easy.

The Following User Says Thank You to MUSLCAH For This Useful Post:
  #26  
Old 06-07-2021, 08:20 AM
fairwayhit fairwayhit is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Colorado Springs
Posts: 116
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by roger1 View Post
Yes.
I don't recommend blocking the SPI primer on the body. Although it does sand well, it doesn't block near as easy as a polyester or 2K urethane. It also takes longer. After spraying epoxy, it really takes 2 days before it doesn't load your paper at all. A 2K primer can be blocked after waiting an hour or 2.
I recall Barry once saying "Blocking out a car using SPI epoxy only is just for the very experienced".

I actually felt that using SPI epoxy instead of epoxy and 2k was easier for a novice.

The reason is that if you are block sanding the epoxy and find a low spot you can just apply some filler and keep blocking until you hit bear metal. Then you can spray some more epoxy and block it again.

You really shouldn’t apply any filler over 2k, and you shouldn’t apply 2k to bear metal. So you really need your filler work to be blocked much better so the 2k only is filling minor flaws.

Also, the epoxy won’t shrink like many 2k primers. SPI black epoxy also sands to a dark grey so it provides its own guide coat. I also think it is tougher than poly or 2k, so if a novice gets a little build up on the edges it isn’t going to chip as easily.

Also the Black SPI primer sprays out with a nice gloss so you can really get an idea of how straight things are.


I think it takes a little more time and is a little more expensive than 2k, but is very easy to work with.

The 2k is more difficult to mix up and spray as the solids are think and go to the bottom of the can. You cant really strain it and it dries much faster in the gun. (Shirt pot life). All of this is more difficult for the novice. You have to mix up a ton of small batches.

Also, if you are only using epoxy you don’t have a half a gallon of 2k laying around after you are done.

Anyway, I am as novice as they come, so I’m sure there are better ways. That is just what works for me.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to fairwayhit For This Useful Post:
  #27  
Old 06-07-2021, 09:06 AM
dhutton dhutton is offline
Chief Ponti-yacker
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Mountain Springs, Texas
Posts: 559
Default

SPI epoxy is the only epoxy I would attempt to build with but I just don’t have the patience.

No one has mentioned poly primer but it’s my go to high build over epoxy. I like Z-Chrome Rust Defender.

Etch primer is just cheap primer with a little phosphoric acid tossed in. It has no place in modern restoration work imho. Old school technology….

Don

  #28  
Old 06-07-2021, 09:40 AM
Formulabruce's Avatar
Formulabruce Formulabruce is offline
Ultimate Warrior
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: North East of AMES PERFORMANCE, in the "SHIRE"
Posts: 9,363
Default

I use Evercoat highbuild, but much less of it with SPI epoxy. Like mentioned above, and shown in my pic, it gets a nice shine, which makes it great for blocking. It may take more time, but you can't really block many epoxys at all. Big benefit not mentioned is that you can reduce the total mills of paint giving a much cleaner paint job with no "fat edges".

The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Formulabruce For This Useful Post:
  #29  
Old 06-07-2021, 09:57 AM
roger1's Avatar
roger1 roger1 is offline
Chief Ponti-yacker
 
Join Date: Aug 2020
Location: San Angelo, TX
Posts: 765
Default

Fairwayhit,
You make a lot really good points and agree with them all. I'm glad you brought them up and you don't sound like a novice.

I agree with what you say about 2K. This is why I use a polyester primer for when I need a high build primer and use it on panels that have had body work or are just going to need extra thickness for blocking. It builds really fast and doesn't shrink after a short cure in the sun. You do have to be careful using 2K primer to avoid shrinking problems. It is super important not to pile it on to give coats plenty of flash time. Also putting in the sun to cure is a good thing to do.
You are correct that SPI epoxy doesn't shrink but again flash times are important and piling on can always lead to trouble. The nice thing about polyester is that sprays so thick, cures fast and it blocks really easy. I think the combo of SPI epoxy and polyester without using a 2K is a good procedure. However, after the blocking is all complete on the poly, I'd spray 2 coats of epoxy on top and do the final blocking on that.

I use Evercoat SlickSand polyester and find it sprays well as long as you make sure you buy a fresh can and use a spray gun with a 2.2 to 2.5 tip. Disadvantages are the short shelf life and super short pot life. Once activated, you want to spray it all out in 20 minutes or so or it can pretty much ruin a spray gun. Not a good idea to use it on a hot summer afternoon either. It sets up even faster although it can be slowed down a bit by adding a little acetone.

As far as using SPI epoxy primer only on a car, I would do it only if the car didn't have any previous bodywork and the panels were all really straight already. Otherwise I just find the process too slow for me.

I know I'm sounding like an authority in this thread but I am not at all. I'm a novice but I have spent a lot of time over the years reading and listening to the guys on the SPI forum. The guy named Shine on that forum has helped me become a better painter and I consider him a friend.
I've painted my first car in 1984 and once every 4 or 5 years after that. All hobby work for myself and a bit for family.

And btw, Shine is a proponent of using SPI epoxy only under his paint jobs.

Dataway, I suggest when you call SPI to ask for Barry and discuss procedures. He loves to talk!

__________________
'69 GTO Convertible - Acquired October 2020. An all original project car. Restomod is underway PROJECT THREAD
'83 Chevy Choo Choo SS El Camino - LT1 350/4L60e, Owned for 30 Years, completed 2nd restomod in 2018 PHOTO
2019 BMW 440ix - Twin turbo I6, 8spd auto. PHOTO
'55 Chevy Bel Air Sport Coupe - Ram Jet 350 / T56 Magnum 6spd, Restomod Completed Sept. 2012, Sold Sept. 2021 PHOTO
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to roger1 For This Useful Post:
  #30  
Old 06-07-2021, 01:43 PM
dataway's Avatar
dataway dataway is offline
Ultimate Warrior
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Saratoga NY
Posts: 8,922
Default

Just ordered a gallon black SPI black epoxy, gallon of activator, gallon of medium reducer, gallon of their wax and grease remover.

I grew up in TN, forgot how nice it is to do business with southern people They seemed real busy so no chat ... just asked him if this sounded like everything I need, he said yep assuming I wanted to reduce for sealer use also.

Total $314

Thanks everyone for helping me decide, I'll probably have more questions when time to apply. I joined the SPI a while back, keep forgetting to use it.

  #31  
Old 06-09-2021, 06:05 PM
dataway's Avatar
dataway dataway is offline
Ultimate Warrior
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Saratoga NY
Posts: 8,922
Default

Just watched that SPI/Ospho torture test video on YouTube .... pretty impressive. Seems the reactivation and rinse works pretty much just as well as never using Ospho at all. After the GTO, can't wait to try the SPI on some of my farm equipment that see a lot of abuse.

  #32  
Old 06-10-2021, 04:24 AM
dataway's Avatar
dataway dataway is offline
Ultimate Warrior
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Saratoga NY
Posts: 8,922
Default

Roger, glad I followed your advice and remove ALL filler. The filler that looks so stable, and had been there for 40+ years .... when removing it you could see those slight rust stains forming underneath it. Might have held up a few more years but if the car saw any normal driving and weather .... it for sure what have caused problems down the road.

Strange body work done on it. One quarter had the strangest running crease following the top of the driver side wheel arch, but the lip of the arch was still perfect, like the car side swiped something made of rubber. The passenger side quarter, lower side behind the wheel well ... has maybe 3/16" dish the size of your hand that was filled. In nether case was any attempt made to straighten the metal, no hammering, no pulling. The passenger side looks like I might be able to take a rubber mallet to the trunk side and just tap it right back out. And the driver side, half an hour with a stud welder will reduce the filler by probably 80%. It's like the body man only worked with filler and didn't "do metal" I've owned the car since 1976, and knew the car since 1974 no body work at all done on it in that time frame. So it was either pre-74 or factory work. Did they do body work on damaged shells at the factory?

  #33  
Old 06-10-2021, 08:10 AM
MUSLCAH MUSLCAH is offline
Ultimate Warrior
 
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: N.H.
Posts: 1,920
Default

Cars get whacked on the delivery trailers....backed into on the car lot...vandalism.... you know ,stupid stuff....before they are sold .

  #34  
Old 06-10-2021, 11:07 AM
spank e's Avatar
spank e spank e is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 3
Default

I'm no expert but I think it is mostly used when adhesion maybe an issue like plastics, rubbers and old fiberglass with other substances on it that may cause bubbling or other problems.

  #35  
Old 06-10-2021, 11:16 AM
roger1's Avatar
roger1 roger1 is offline
Chief Ponti-yacker
 
Join Date: Aug 2020
Location: San Angelo, TX
Posts: 765
Default

You never know what's lurking behind old filler. Glad you removed it.

__________________
'69 GTO Convertible - Acquired October 2020. An all original project car. Restomod is underway PROJECT THREAD
'83 Chevy Choo Choo SS El Camino - LT1 350/4L60e, Owned for 30 Years, completed 2nd restomod in 2018 PHOTO
2019 BMW 440ix - Twin turbo I6, 8spd auto. PHOTO
'55 Chevy Bel Air Sport Coupe - Ram Jet 350 / T56 Magnum 6spd, Restomod Completed Sept. 2012, Sold Sept. 2021 PHOTO
  #36  
Old 06-11-2021, 04:03 AM
dataway's Avatar
dataway dataway is offline
Ultimate Warrior
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Saratoga NY
Posts: 8,922
Default

So I'm going to get 8 empty metal quart paint cans, figure to put one pint of primer in each, leaving room for 1 pint of activator in each. My gun has a quart cup .... so sound like a good idea? In most cases I'll probably only shoot one cup at a time.

  #37  
Old 06-11-2021, 08:04 AM
roger1's Avatar
roger1 roger1 is offline
Chief Ponti-yacker
 
Join Date: Aug 2020
Location: San Angelo, TX
Posts: 765
Default

I use these:


I look at what I want to paint in the session and estimate how many sprayable ounces I will need to do that and then mix that much. I can always mix more if I need to.
I use metal cans for long term storage of paint but for the short term storage you need for activated epoxy and paint, the plastic ones are cheaper and easier to deal with.

Pouring directly from the gallon can is bit challenging when it is new full can but that is what I do.
Having these makes it easier:







I'd say the last item is imperative. I use it with reducer and use I clean everything with it.
I got one in the DeKups system kit I bought a few years ago and wonder how I lived without it for so long.

Also make sure you have plenty of paint mixing sticks and strainers on hand. You can use the bottle to rinse out a strainer after rinsing out your spray gun between coats so you don't use them up as quick.

I also like these:


__________________
'69 GTO Convertible - Acquired October 2020. An all original project car. Restomod is underway PROJECT THREAD
'83 Chevy Choo Choo SS El Camino - LT1 350/4L60e, Owned for 30 Years, completed 2nd restomod in 2018 PHOTO
2019 BMW 440ix - Twin turbo I6, 8spd auto. PHOTO
'55 Chevy Bel Air Sport Coupe - Ram Jet 350 / T56 Magnum 6spd, Restomod Completed Sept. 2012, Sold Sept. 2021 PHOTO

Last edited by roger1; 06-11-2021 at 08:18 AM.
The Following User Says Thank You to roger1 For This Useful Post:
  #38  
Old 06-11-2021, 08:28 AM
dhutton dhutton is offline
Chief Ponti-yacker
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Mountain Springs, Texas
Posts: 559
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by dataway View Post
So I'm going to get 8 empty metal quart paint cans, figure to put one pint of primer in each, leaving room for 1 pint of activator in each. My gun has a quart cup .... so sound like a good idea? In most cases I'll probably only shoot one cup at a time.
Way too much work imho and unnecessary. Just use some paint mixing cups like Roger posted and mix as you go. You will likely waste a lot of paint otherwise.

Don

The Following User Says Thank You to dhutton For This Useful Post:
  #39  
Old 06-11-2021, 08:34 AM
fairwayhit fairwayhit is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Colorado Springs
Posts: 116
Default

I drill two holes in the full gallon paint lid. 180degrees opposition of each other. Stir your paint put the lid with the holes on it and pour out of one of the holes.

I use the 3m pps liners instead of the mixing cups. I use a strainer when I pour into the pps liner and I take the screen out of the pps liner

Then I just use some bolts of the same size as the holes in the gallon lid and screw them in to seal the lid back up.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

The Following User Says Thank You to fairwayhit For This Useful Post:
  #40  
Old 06-11-2021, 08:56 AM
roger1's Avatar
roger1 roger1 is offline
Chief Ponti-yacker
 
Join Date: Aug 2020
Location: San Angelo, TX
Posts: 765
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by fairwayhit View Post
I drill two holes in the full gallon paint lid. 180degrees opposition of each other. Stir your paint put the lid with the holes on it and pour out of one of the holes.
Then I just use some bolts of the same size as the holes in the gallon lid and screw them in to seal the lid back up.
I haven't heard of this. I may have to give it a try!

__________________
'69 GTO Convertible - Acquired October 2020. An all original project car. Restomod is underway PROJECT THREAD
'83 Chevy Choo Choo SS El Camino - LT1 350/4L60e, Owned for 30 Years, completed 2nd restomod in 2018 PHOTO
2019 BMW 440ix - Twin turbo I6, 8spd auto. PHOTO
'55 Chevy Bel Air Sport Coupe - Ram Jet 350 / T56 Magnum 6spd, Restomod Completed Sept. 2012, Sold Sept. 2021 PHOTO
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 10:23 AM.

 

About Us

The PY Online Forums is the largest online gathering of Pontiac enthusiasts anywhere in the world. Founded in 1991, it was also the first online forum for people to gather and talk about their Pontiacs. Since then, it has become the mecca of Pontiac technical data and knowledge that no other place can surpass.

 




Copyright © 2017