[Mike S]

I am rebuilding a 400 for my street car. I am using what I have. RPM intake 1.75 headers and a 750 Holley. Putting my 6x heads milled to 90cc. Compression will be right around 9-1.I will be using an overdrive trans with stock convertor and 3.31 rear end. Horsepower is not high on the list just want a nice cruiser with torque
Leaning to a hydraulic roller.,
67 or 68 cam? Butler has one that's 218/224 .494/.503 lift ls 112

Everyone thinks I am crazy pull the 455 out that actually went 11.70 ant 3900lbs

[tom s]

SP 2,nice manners.Tom

[77 TRASHCAN]

068, from my non expert perspective...

[tom s]

I don’t think a 068 is a hyd roller.What he is leaning to?Tom

[77 TRASHCAN]

Tom,
Butler came out with a line of supposed O.E. Pontiac cams.
They sell a flat hydraulic tappet 067, 068, 744, and 041.

BUT, they also offer hydraulic roller versions of those same grinds.

I read about this, here. Maybe someone can slap a link on here.
Thanks.

[tooski]

Originally Posted by Mike S

67 or 68 cam? Butler has one that's 218/224 .494/.503 lift ls 112

On this site for that type of build I see the 068 recommend the most.
I have (had) one that is similar and liked it.

Also the Summit 2801 is fairly recommended.

[TA63]

https://butlerperformance.com/i-2445...-20510710.html

I am going to try this lunati roller grind in a 9-1 400. 211/219@.050 on a 112 lsa. Lightly massaged 6x-4 heads, stock intake and qjet, ram air manifolds and dual exhaust. Car is a 77 grand prix with 3.08 gears and turbo 400.

[Dragncar]

Is there any advantage to a hyd roller with a tiny 211 lobe ? With all the hyd lifter problems it seems like all risk, little reward over a good hft cam and lifters.

[Formulas]

if your after calm driving around torque in a 3.75 stroke engine the 2801 is superior to the 068 per my back to back experience and theres nothing wrong with the 2801 at WOT.

[Jay S]

How much fuel economy are you willing to give up for HP?

All the cams listed so far at going to have good TQ. With the lower gear set in the OD tranny it should have plenty of bottom end even with the bigger Bulter cam. You could go bigger yet, like the next step up from the butler 218/224 cam, I think it is 224/230, and not loose much fuel economy, maybe 1 mpg, and probably gain on the total and avg TQ numbers. Even the SP2 on 112 like Tom mentioned won’t give up much TQ.

Comparing the Butler 218/224 112LSA, to the small Lunati 211/219 112LSA, to the smaller yet Butler ram air series 067 HR grind (202*/210*) 111 LSA. The Butler RA series 067 is at the top of the list for fuel economy for a 9:1 400 with a OD tranny. But it would be on the bottom of the list for power. My guess is the 067 RA HR Butler cam would be better on MPG by 3 to as high as 4 over the Butler 218/224 with the OD set up. The little Lunati would be someplace between that.

Playing with cams in OD cars going from stock to small cam upgrades like those, when you keep the E/I splits similar I have always gained power but lost some on fuel milage. To get better fuel milage and power I had to change from the normal E/I splits that are 6 to 10 degrees that most company’s sell, and change to single pattern cams or cams with smaller 4* E/I split’s, and not run much advance.

[Jay S]

X2 on 2801 over 068.

I know of a uppers 8s SCR 400 with ported 96s and headers with 3.73s, running a 700R4 in a 71 Lemans. Around 17 mpg. It had a custom cam 215*/224* on a 115 LSA, similar to a 068 with much less seat timing. It made about 310HP to the wheels, ran mid 13s.

[77 TRASHCAN]

Jay,
What about the old Comp High Energy grinds? Not the XE stuff though. Like we talked about some time back...for a 400.

[Mike S]

The plan is to set it up for a coast to coast trip. Should be about 2000rpms at 70mph. Power is not high on the list but don't want a pooch either. Don't plan on racing it any more but 14's would be nice.
Only reason for the roller is, I had a bad experience with a solid flat tappet years ago. Wiped the cam twice. Pulled the engine twice because of it.

[b-man]

I would do the Butler 067 hydraulic roller.

Running mostly at 2000 rpm this would be a great choice, will easily run somewhere in the 14s.

[Jay S]

The high energy 268, which is 218/218 with a 110LSA would be a decent mix of power and fuel economy, but not a lot different.. I think it would be a bit better for economy than the summit 2801 or an 068. I have known low compression 455s that made it into the low teens for fuel economy with the 268 hi energy and 3.55s, still not great but were a bit better than the 068 that were often barely 12 mpg. I think the best results on economy and power would be to run a single pattern cam like that 110LSA 268 then change the intake valves over to 45* from the 30*. If you leave the factory 30s with the OD it would work better and get better economy to have it ground so the LSA was 112 instead of 110 and drop down to the high energy 262 instead of the 268.

That Bulter 067 hyd roller looks like a good choice to me also. I have not seen anything mentioned that will come close to it for fuel milage with the OD.

[PAUL K]

IMO.... I would go with a HFT set up. At the level you are talking about, the HR cam will offer next to nothing as far as advantages. It will have more expense and the chance for more potential problems.

[slowbird]

Originally Posted by PAUL K

IMO.... I would go with a HFT set up. At the level you are talking about, the HR cam will offer next to nothing as far as advantages. It will have more expense and the chance for more potential problems.

You really think a hft has less issues? I might be wrong but it seems everything has issues, you just gotta pick your poison.

[PAUL K]

Originally Posted by slowbird

You really think a hft has less issues? I might be wrong but it seems everything has issues, you just gotta pick your poison.

Yeah.... You're wrong

The cam core can be taken care of. All that's left is a trouble free lifter. There's several options to take care of that.

I don't have enough time to cover the HR's issues but they stem from broken lifter bore, to ticking, with a bunch in between.

[b-man]

Even the lowly 066 would be a great road trip cam, slow acting lobes for long life.

The 350 hp 1969 GP 400 automatic trans engines all came with the 066, with probably less than 10:1 compression running the #62 heads they certainly held their own in that luxury long wheelbase GTO.

[MarkS57]

Originally Posted by Jay S

X2 on 2801 over 068.

I know of a uppers 8s SCR 400 with ported 96s and headers with 3.73s, running a 700R4 in a 71 Lemans. Around 17 mpg. It had a custom cam 215*/224* on a 115 LSA, similar to a 068 with much less seat timing. It made about 310HP to the wheels, ran mid 13s.

X3, used both in my 400 and the 2801 is a great compromise. Not that the Melling 068 is bad, just that the 2801 has a little more punch when you want it and has good manners.