[grandam1979]

The problem with that thinking is they are good neighbors until they decide it’s time not to be and you have looked the other way till that time. Most good honest people don’t need a locked compound.

[dataway]

Could just as easily say most good honest people don't need any gun, don't need any car that goes more than the speed limit, don't need any alcohol, don't need a pet .... the day we start letting other people decide what we do and don't need we're in a world of hurt.

Do you really want your neighbors deciding what you do and don't need?

[turbo69bird]

Originally Posted by geeteeohguy

Less than an hour ago in the news it says that the police found over 1000 guns and 140,000 rounds of ammo. Also stated that their visit was to do a search and seizure of firearms and to serve a warrant. Did not say that these men were felons who should not have had guns. Also, as stated, if their father was a dealer, that amount of guns is not unusual. I know people who have many, many guns. And 140,000 rounds of ammo is not as much as it sounds like. It could be a couple hundred bricks of .22 along with a bunch of other stuff.
IMO, these guys were dirtbags. That said, if they had no felony records and legally owned their guns, the prospect of the government coming to seize them is unconstitutional and is indicative of a rouge government (which we've been seeing for years now) over-stepping. Without all the facts, hard to tell. I do know the police fired the first shots at Ruby Ridge and at Waco.

If the father was an FFL what’s wrong with having that amount of firearms? Shall NOT be infringed . A regular practice would take 100-500 rounds for most people . And
Someone who competes might use that daily! Think Pete michulak

I bet they would have had a whole different story to tell. We lived here first, these others moved in around us and we used to own this town for generations. We’re the one’s being infringed on. They look clean and look like they run a decent business w clean trucks BUT there’s plenty who do that and are bad people . Can’t say what the story is cause the people w the other side of the story are dead.

BUT in their minds , I’d bet they just wanted to be left alone to live their way on their land and people kept messing w them.

Would almost guarantee it.

Ever seen the documentary on the davidians on Netflix? Always two sides to a story, any story.

Always keep I mind people buy guns and ammo for investment. Even cocoa cola owned a lot of machine guns and other rare guns for investment as do many other corporations.
It’s just not publicized.

[turbo69bird]

Originally Posted by dataway

Could just as easily say most good honest people don't need any gun, don't need any car that goes more than the speed limit, don't need any alcohol, don't need a pet .... the day we start letting other people decide what we do and don't need we're in a world of hurt.

Do you really want your neighbors deciding what you do and don't need?

Couldn’t agree more with this statement !

[turbo69bird]

Originally Posted by grandam1979

The problem with that thinking is they are good neighbors until they decide it’s time not to be and you have looked the other way till that time. Most good honest people don’t need a locked compound.

This comment is total BULL****. They pay for that land they pay those taxes they can live how they choose as long as they aren’t hurting anyone or terrorizing anyone .

Why should anyone feel they have a right to dictate how other should live. Force their will on others- they shouldn’t. Because tomorrow it may be your way that’s not acceptable to others. Never forget that.

Plenty of people think you shouldn’t own that old car anymore

[Scarebird]

Originally Posted by turbo69bird

This comment is total BULL****. They pay for that land they pay those taxes they can live how they choose as long as they aren’t hurting anyone or terrorizing anyone...

I have not met Cliff; only bought his book and done business along with reading his posts here and a brief tech chat on the phone.

That said I see note is not prone to hyperbole. So I give his description of his psycho neighbors the weight it deserves. When you go somewhere and feel you need to be armed there is an issue with either you or where you are going.

I don't think the issue was with Cliff.

[Tom Vaught]

Originally Posted by dataway

Could just as easily say most good honest people don't need any gun, don't need any car that goes more than the speed limit, don't need any alcohol, don't need a pet .... the day we start letting other people decide what we do and don't need we're in a world of hurt.

Do you really want your neighbors deciding what you do and don't need?

You ever play "Wack A Mole" at a kids amusement location.

You have to be able to actually hit the target to make anything happen.

So now we go back 65 years and a bunch of farmers have ground hog/ Prairie Dog issues with cattle stepping into a hole
and having to be "put down the cow with a broken leg."

So in this example the farmers actually needed a long range gun and a good shot to get rid of the "dogs" in the fields.

So actually sometimes you really need a accurate weapon to do a task.
Not waving the thing around in protest march, etc.

Been there, made a lot more money clearing out Prairie Dog Villages vs the typical high school kid bucking bales for 2 cents a bail on a farm.

So are you saying, some people would say I was not honest because I owned a accurate gun and used it as it was designed to be used?


Tom V.

['ol Pinion head]

Believe we can all agree once the taking shots began across their family property & close to their property line, that's where the problem arose. Anyone that's ever owned & lived on some choice hunting property knows the property line areas you better be careful along or those property lines are a no go when they're a straight shot into a neighbors property, nearby cattle, or for that matter a county road down range.

As an older teen I had a surprise deal with an elderly neighbor's older nephew. This was one morning early while quail hunting on of my Granddad's farms. Out of some sort of twisted retaliation for two us working a draw on my family's land, below & next to his uncles land, the pr!ck pulled the 12guage of his truck & shot down on the backside of two of my family's Britannys. He had no right to do that! Was not a good time for my best friend & I when we immediately drove back to the main house. Lot of explaining, as well as tending to both dogs, & it cut my best friend & my 3 day weekend short. The next summer, there just so happened to another encounter with the same wayward nephew, & this time after him popping off, the result was a broken trigger finger & thumb. Not mine. Not a word from the local sheriff after that deal & nephew Ed, he moved on. The problem today is there needs to be some dispensing of some serious Frontier Justice. Have zero issue with anyone owning dozens or hundreds of acres & making a very secure home place. Don't care how many guns & ammo they have, just don't go round pointing them at folks.

[turbo69bird]

Originally Posted by Scarebird

I have not met Cliff; only bought his book and done business along with reading his posts here and a brief tech chat on the phone.

That said I see note is not prone to hyperbole. So I give his description of his psycho neighbors the weight it deserves. When you go somewhere and feel you need to be armed there is an issue with either you or where you are going.

I don't think the issue was with Cliff.

Did I ever say the issue was with cliff? No

I said the issue was with telling others they can’t live in a gated community or compound.
Or own guns which is your right under the constitution of this great nation. And if you don’t think you need to carry a gun. You are not aware of much that actually goes on in this world. I had a relative who thought that and after they raped and killed his family he thought different and so did I .
So maybe. Rethink your opinions that can get people killed keep them for yourself, if that’s the way you want to live feel free but it’s better to have it and not need it than the alternative
So dint try to force it in others.

And I never said those people weren’t the problem I said blanket statements that don’t take into account both stories and get to the bottom of things were an issue. Forcing your will on others is an issue .
Live your life how you want, but let others live theirs how they choose and the world will be a much happier better place .

And yes if those shots came from those people they should have been arrested BUT they should have had due process to know if that was actually the case.

IE the constitution should be followed in all cases.

[Scarebird]

In that word salad you typed you still miss the point from your own earlier post:

Originally Posted by turbo69bird View Post
This comment is total BULL****. They pay for that land they pay those taxes they can live how they choose as long as they aren’t hurting anyone or terrorizing anyone...

"You are not aware of much that actually goes on in this world."

A remarkably ignorant statement given you are clueless as to what I have done, seen, been, learned etc.

[turbo69bird]

In no way am I saying cliffs story or impression isn’t accurate. . It likely is spot on .
But I bet those guys saw it a whole different way is what I am saying and that is what due process and the law is for to find out what was really going on, But now we’ll never know .

Take a look at what happened to Marjorie Taylor green the last two nights (swatting) what if that’s what happened to these guys?
People are using these institutions for retribution as well.
Then look l at no bail laws and other things going on and ask if justice is applied equally in all cases?

And there’s just too many people w too many opinions on how others should live or what should go on with others properties . It isn’t yours and unless it actually harms you it shouldn’t be your business if you really don’t like it buy the property, pay the taxes, then you can do what ever you want with it.

This is a space community , and church used to fill now people try to force thier will on others and it’s not good for anyone.

[turbo69bird]

[QUOTE=Scarebird;6367605]In that word salad you typed you still miss the point from your own earlier post:

Originally Posted by turbo69bird View Post
This comment is total BULL****. They pay for that land they pay those taxes they can live how they choose as long as they aren’t hurting anyone or terrorizing anyone...

"You are not aware of much that actually goes on in this world."

A remarkably ignorant statement given you are clueless as to what I have done, seen, been, learned etc.[/QUOTE

What’s YOUR point . Cause I have no idea what your trying to say. You think you should just bust in a kill people because they own a gun and must be bad guys??? What is it be clear

Your statement was if you need to carry a gun There’s something wrong with YOU or where you are . That’s not ignorant? My relative needed a gun in his house. What’s wrong w him or where he was? no that statement wasnt ignorant. People don’t need your approval to own a gun or carry one the constitution has that covered thanks.

Did you or anyone else PROVE they hurt SOMEONE not just property? Have you proved it was them in court or just mowed them
Down cause they owned guns and ammo.
On thier own property?

[72projectbird]

Originally Posted by grandam1979

The problem with that thinking is they are good neighbors until they decide it’s time not to be and you have looked the other way till that time. Most good honest people don’t need a locked compound.

My goodness, that's an all time bad take.

Originally Posted by dataway

Could just as easily say most good honest people don't need any gun, don't need any car that goes more than the speed limit, don't need any alcohol, don't need a pet .... the day we start letting other people decide what we do and don't need we're in a world of hurt.

Do you really want your neighbors deciding what you do and don't need?

X2

I enjoy my privacy. I enjoy not seeing my neighbors. I enjoy that my neighbors dont feel like they need to be nosey and watch what I'm doing.

There's nothing wrong with someone fencing in their property. There's nothing wrong with someone living a private life. There is something extremely wrong with someone believing they have the right to tell someone else how to live.

[Scarebird]

Originally Posted by turbo69bird

What’s YOUR point . Cause I have no idea what your trying to say...

I could not have made it any clearer - Cliff's now deceased neighbors threatened people.

That said, your grammar is horrible and muddies any thought you are trying to convey.

[Cliff R]

I've actually been a bit "reserved" with my comments. Some of the stories fall into the "you just can't make that chit up catagory", others may have been blown somewhat out of proportion a bit. Below is what I know to be true and fairly accurate.

The two brothers have been progressively getting more violent in recent years and more of them. It was just a matter of time till they finally got charges against them and locked up.

At the beginning they pretty much just defended their property and God help anyone who inadvertently trespassed on it.

They ran down a youngster once who just crossed their property on a quad, I know him well. They stopped him, pulled him off the quad and put a 12 gauge slug thru the engine.

My brothers son-in-laws hounds crossed onto one of their properties and treed a raccoon. They executed his dogs before he could get to them.

I had two "run-ins" with them as mentioned and it changed my bowhunting tactics forever. I will NEVER be in a tree with two people on the ground under me with rifles and all I have is my crossbow and a pocket knife!

They fired 30 rounds in to a house on another property and put a .270 round thru an occupied house the same night they had a disagreement with the property owner about property boundaries/building a high fence too close to him.

They cut most of the way thru a safety chain on a tree stand positoned close to but not on their property.

They torched several ground blinds set up too close to them.

About twice a year Ghilcrest or Paige road at littered with sheet rock screws or roofing nails. They threw an entire box in a neighbors driveway shortly after he purchased some land on the other end of their "compound". They wanted that section BAD, but the owner had had so many issues with them he was NOT going to sell it to them at any price.

They used to just fire many rounds from their rifles while in close proximity to your IF you hunted on private property boarding theirs. That turned into shooting into the trees over your head or even into the ground near you. They even fired a high power rifle round that struck several feet above the head of a bowhunter in a tree stand. He was set up on private property and legally deer hunting.

Fast forward till recently. They got into BIG trouble with their last escapades which included nearly beating his significant other so badly she needed medical attention and reconstructive surgery. Then he stalked her, threatened to kill her and made death threats against here attorney, the Judge and the prosecutor.

These aren't you "ordinary" clean cut boys running a legitimate and successful business. They are DANGEROUS and needed to be stopped.

In closing here I'm ALL for protecting your property, family and yourself. Stockpile as many weapons as you want, you can only hold, carry or effectively use one or two at a time anyhow. Put up your high fence, build your bunkers, etc. However, when you "stretch" your right to protect yourself across property lines and start threatening folks just trying to hunt a whitetail deer, and the violence you will inflict on others seems to have no end.....it's time to put a stop to it. For these two it was WAY too long in coming, and now a lot of us out this way are going to rest easier and sleep better at night......

[Stuart]

To those who are responding to Cliff's story - the Lobby is not the place for debates about the right to own arms or liberty.

[Sirrotica]

Cliff, after reading about this family it seems that most of the friction was due to deer hunting. Did they want the deer not hunted, or did they want to keep as many as possible on, and around their compound for their own consumption?

I realize they also seem generally paranoid, just trying to get what it was about deer, and hunting deer that seemed to anger them so much.

[Cliff R]

You are correct. Many of the incidents stemmed from deer hunting. They were obsessed with harvesting trophy bucks and went to great lengths to contain them. They even tried to completely fence in the "compound" but ODNR wouldn't allow it. Instead they just about closed it in, and signed up under some Pheasants Forever nonesense to get that done which required posting signs of the like, etc.

Of course everyone knew that IF you trespassed onto their property you'd be in someones gun sights so that didn't happen much. When they continued to "stretch" their desire to stop others from killing deer in close proximity to them that's when a lot of the confrontations and issues happened with other hunters and landowners.

They were even charged once for hunting from a road. Before they finished the fence on Monroe Mills road someone got them on video standing in the road shooting weapons to keep the deer from leaving their property. Shortly after they closed in that portion of the tall fence. In doing so there was a despute with one of the land owners because there are a number of houses on Monroe Mills road that backed up to their land. Words were exchanged with one of those homeowners concerning property lines and equipment damaging his property, etc. In retaliation they put a 270 round thru his house late at night.

Their father passed a couple of years ago and that's when things really started to ramp up. We all knew it wasn't going to be too long before they would get into enough trouble that they couldn't "lawyer" their way out of it, and we were correct.

For some reason nobody can figure out the Judge let Randy out on bond after revoking it. Made no sense to anyone involved and for sure there wasn't going to be a good ending at that point.

In a twisted turn of events the Judge also chose to keep the bail bondsmans $100,000. This makes no sense, they should have given all of it back to him and additional funds to repair his truck that was struck by six rounds from a high powered rifle trying to apprehend them. He did the County a favor, IMHO and for sure shouldn't be punished for it. There wasn't going to be a peaceful ending to this anyhow and local Law Enforcement weren't making a lot of progress in that direction.......

https://www.facebook.com/groups/3279...63057450731407

[grandam1979]

Again the average person or family does not need a armed compound especially with armed guards. My comment was good neighbors dont need to hide and keep people out. I have plenty of neighbors with large property’s and most would not want you to just show up without a call (I don’t like that myself) BUT they aren’t going to start shootings at you if you do. I never made comments about taking your guns or rights you guys need to come back of the cliff.

[redbird68]

I'm waiting for the movie on Netflix. I've seen many with weaker story lines!

Cliff - sure you do not remember me but I called you for carb rebuild maybe 17-18 years ago. You said you were booked out a long ways, asked me if I had bought your book. I said yes. You asked if I had read it. I said yes. You said 'why not rebuild it yourself? You talked me through what kit was right for me and sent it to me. I rebuilt it and it turned out fantastic. Gave me tremendous confidence, I have since taken on nearly everything you can do to a car and overall have had excellent results. Thank you.

I'm glad you and yours are ok, and am also glad you can now sleep better. I would not rest easy with a neighbor as you describe.

Bill