[Mcronk]

Originally Posted by Baron Von Zeppelin

The 2 1970 Ram4 Jverts , and even probably the 69 TA Ram4, are cars that will probably never see open road use again .
Unless they become extremely devalued in 20-30 years.

I like the Blue Jvert better, but the OO is likely going to bring more money.
Mcronk if you are able to view them both, could you let us know if the Blue car is on par with the quality of the OO car.

I know the OO car is pretty much top notch.
And so is the 69 TA

Do they keep all these cars indoors during the whole event ?

How does the parking/storage work for auction cars during the event ?
Is indoor parking an extra cost option ?

Are these cars on-site for viewing for the whole duration ?

I have looked over both these cars and even checked block codes/VIN on OO car. The OO car is finished nicer than the Atol Blue car. Atol Blue car is nice but just not quite the same level of detail.

The Como collection is in a climate controlled glass building they assemble for the auction. The Atol Blue car is in a tent behind the glass building. It is however on pavement instead of on grass. Cars get very dusty outside of the glass building. They are moving cars in and out of the tents as their time slots come up which creates dust/dirt.

The main attraction cars are generally in place the entire acution. Some of the others like feature cars or star cars may not arrive till later. We spoke to one of the Mecum employees on the first day. There was no way there were 4,000 cars being displayed. We were told all cars would be checked in by Tuesday (yesterday). Logistically they seem to stagger cars later in the auction to arrive on site later.

The higher profile cars have the most expensive time slots. Those cars are generally stored either in one of the buildings or the glass building indoors. You will find Winged cars, Sheblys, Hemis etc outside under the tents too. There are so many cars a lot of the cars are not even under a tent and in a field.

Once a car goes across the stage it is either sold or goes to Bid Goes On. In the past Bid Goes On cars were located in one area. However this year they used a lot of their storage area to display the additional cars added to the auction. I saw BGO cars taken back to their original spots. A friend was there yesterday and said they were trying to locate all the BGO cars in one place. Cars that were sold initially went back to their original display spots. We are seeing car transporters leaving the auction with cars that sold. Honestly I don't think they could expand this acution anymore than they have at this location. Parking for attendees was maxed out and they were using shuttles to get people to the entrance gates. It will be a train wreck this Saturday when all the spectators show up. A couple of pics of Atol Blue Judge convertible I took.

[Mcronk]

Originally Posted by Baron Von Zeppelin

The car I am most curious about what it brings is the Blue 68 GTO Ram2 car.
Have never seen a 68 Ram2 GTO bring what I felt they should in finished form.
Maybe I have missed a couple of their results though.

If Aegena Blue doesn't strike a big number at this event , it never will.
Its money should be just a little under a Ram4 Judge.
Higher than a Ram 4 GTO

Immensely rare from the word go, and with ultra ultra low survival ratio.
GrandDaddy of the RoundPorts

You may recall I own one of the RA II cars on your list. I have been very interested in seeing this car that Jim Mattison formerly owned. This car was sold at BJ auction in 2016 for $132k. Also at that same auction another RA II GTO sold for $110k. I shared posts on this site with another RA II owner who had a convertible. That car was also on your list. It sold maybe 2 years ago for over six figures but not quite what the Mattison car brought.

You rarely see these cars at auctions. It is hard to place a market value because there were so few made and a lot fewer survived. They have no badging, decals, wings, etc that lets you know they are nothing more than a standar GTO. They made a lot more Judges but they are more widely known. Like you said the RA II started the round port engine family. From RAII, RAIV, 455 HO to the 455 SD.

I spent a lot of time inspecting the Aegean Blue car. Took lots of detailed pictures to assist in my restoration. I will say I was dissapointed in how the car has been kept up. You will note that in the online pictures the car was driven through a mud puddle for picture taking. There are mud stains on the tires, mud in the fender wells, and mud on the frame. That mud is still on the car as it was displayed a few days ago. It is in the glass building with the Como cars and is part of the Lindley collection. The car is also leaking anti freeze from the thermostat housing and collecting on the lifter valley pan. Engine paint has been "washed" off where the antifreeze has seeped on the timing cover/water pump seal. The hidden headlights are not closing. Not sure if it is vacum leak or what. It never ceases to amaze me how many times I see cars displayed like this at the auction.

The overall finish and fit is as good as any of the Como cars. I found a couple of very slight imperfections in the paint but it is at least a 6 year old paint job. The car does wear RAIV manifolds (68 RA II are different design, part number, and was the last year to use the thermostatically controlled heat riser). I am by no means a RA II expert but have been researching these cars ever since I became interested in them. They are almost "mystical" as to why they even existed considering the time frame and the RAIV was ready to go for 69.

I will watch this car go across the stage on Thursday. It is going to be one of 3 round port GTOs that day. The others are a 71 455 HO and a 70 RAIV. The Como cars go across on Friday. Not sure if it would be better to go before or after the Como cars. My feelings are the car may not be "appreciated" for what it is. With all the hype on the Judges and RAIV cars it may get "lost". Only those who really know will understand what a RA II is. The color combo is good (very important at auctions) and the overall quality is very good. It is disappointing the car was not displayed in top form. Mecum has their estimate at $180k to $220k for the RA II. The Como collection 69 RAIV at $180k to $210k and $200k to $230k for the 70 RAIV. It is going to be very interesting to see these cars go across. I will be there.

However with that said this auction is bringing crazy money for GTOs. There are about two dozen Judges and almost a dozen RAIV GTOs. More than any auction has ever had. I guess if this car was going to bring high dollar this would be the right time and place. I just wish it was detailed properly.

[Baron Von Zeppelin]

Thanks Mcronk !

Sounds like Friday will be gridlock packed , and Saturday will need helicopters to get in or out..
Could get a state of emergency declared from the governor .

Shameful they are letting ol Blue present that way.
The pictures were bad enough , seems like 10 minutes with a couple buckets of water wouldn't be too much to ask !
Mighty-Vac the headlight doors closed and cap off the lines.
Or a new headlight switch for pre-auction prep.

Since it is probably his cheapest car , they didn't put any focus on it.

I don't remember which car went for 110k
Do remember the VooDoo 4spd Vert that was frame-off restored on here by PY member. It went for low-bucks.
The fees count from peoples pocket, but I don't consider them in the valuation.
Just the hammer number.

Had thought ol Blue had its original exh manifolds with spring riser preserved during restore on here. Maybe I am mistaken, or maybe they got reappointed before it changed hands afterwards.
I do think they were previously intact.

Muddy, dropped headlight doors, t-stat residual decay ,,,will probably cost a 10-25k hit in this scenario.
It will still be an expensive car to buy, but might win an award for best money spent by the time its all over.

[Baron Von Zeppelin]

In your pics it looks like they did get some of the mud off the 68.
Maybe not all of it.

I guess the chain went
yellow66gto - restored car , sold low-buck on eBay (70's or 80's no fees)
Mattison was the eBay winner - I suppose ?
JM sold it in Vegas to Lindley for approx 110-115k (no fees)

If it were sitting as it was when yellow66 sold it
I would put hammer value at 160-175k , no fees.
But its not.

EDIT : I got mixed up on the previous auction picture you posted. The Vegas ad was for an upcoming event in 2020. Not the 2016 Northeast event where it was sold. I guess you captured the screenshot in 2020.
So there might have been another owner between JM and Lindley , I don't know.

['ol Pinion head]

Thanks for the pics MCronk!

If you get near Chucks collection again, would LOVE to see multiple pics, ESP the interior of the Atoll Blue/Sandalwood RA4 Judge. A little seat time in that particular RAIV Judge was all it took near 45 years ago. One of my best friends older brother, owned it for little over 2 years, I tried in the late 80's to buy it, but even w a very generous offer for the time, no dice.

[Mcronk]

Here is a shot of the passenger exhaust manifold on the Aegean Blue car and a picture of an original with heat riser.

The same owner has a CR Judge (originally sold in Alaska) and a Starlight Black Judge there too. They both looked a lot worse than the Aegean Blue car. He also has a collection of winged Mopars there so these probably played second fiddle. You would not believe how many high profile cars I see that just don't seem to have the detail needed to be a concours winner. But hey it is an auction not a points judged show. I believe the other RA II that sold back in 2016 was Tom Stutzman (sp) car. There was a thread on how it was bought off ebay and put back together (see pics).

[Mcronk]

Originally Posted by 'ol Pinion head

Thanks for the pics MCronk!

If you get near Chucks collection again, would LOVE to see multiple pics, ESP the interior of the Atoll Blue/Sandalwood RA4 Judge. A little seat time in that particular RAIV Judge was all it took near 45 years ago. One of my best friends older brother, owned it for little over 2 years, I tried in the late 80's to buy it, but even w a very generous offer for the time, no dice.

I will try tomorrow to get some nice pics of that car. It was one of the nicest cars in the group. I am partial to the Liberty Blue 69 RAIV with Parchment interior and poverty caps. That color combination looks good together. There are 5 round port cars on the schedule tomorrow. T132 71 455 HO, T147 68 RA II, T167 70 RAIV, T146 69 T/A RAIV, and T18 72 Formula 455 HO. Also a couple of 70 Judges and a 69 Judge.

[Baron Von Zeppelin]

Originally Posted by 'ol Pinion head

... tried in the late 80's to buy it, but even w a very generous offer for the time, no dice.

In the late 80"s - 15k would have been generous , maybe even a little less.

Originally Posted by Mcronk

... I believe the other RA II that sold back in 2016 was Tom Stutzman (sp) car. There was a thread on how it was bought off ebay and put back together (see pics).

I remember that car, itself. But didn't know it sold same time as when JM sold ol Blue.
It wasn't quite as nice , or #s like ol Blue.

Lindley owns the 69 TA Ram4 4spd too, that is at the auction.

I like the Liberty / Parchment car a whole lot too. My favorite 69 GTO combo.
But would take the 68 Blue Deuce instead.
And the TripleBlack 66 Vert parked next to it.

Thursday should be Grid-Locked too

[68WarDog]

Lindley owns the 69 TA Ram4 4spd too, that is at the auction.

69 RA 4 TA just sold $400k.

[455dan]

Originally Posted by Baron Von Zeppelin

The car I am most curious about what it brings is the Blue 68 GTO Ram2 car.
Have never seen a 68 Ram2 GTO bring what I felt they should in finished form.
Maybe I have missed a couple of their results though.

If Aegena Blue doesn't strike a big number at this event , it never will.
Its money should be just a little under a Ram4 Judge.
Higher than a Ram 4 GTO

Immensely rare from the word go, and with ultra ultra low survival ratio.
GrandDaddy of the RoundPorts

Sold 230 K Gorgeous

They said it was owned at one time by Jim Wangers as well?

[Baron Von Zeppelin]

That would have put the hammer right about $350k on the 69 TA Ram4 4spd.
I nailed that one in another thread

455HO cars haven't done too well today.

T132
71 GTO 455HO 4spd , Loaded , #s , Adriatic Blue - Sandalwood
$63,800
55k approx on the hammer , seller pays 5% , so about $52,500 his part

T18
72 Formula 455HO Auto , Loaded , #s , Black on Black , PMD Comp Car
$66,000
58k approx on hammer , seller nets about $55,000


T147
68 GTO Blue Deuce Ram2 4spd
$253,000
220k approx on hammer , seller nets about $209,000
ol Blue found his market today !


T167
70 GTO Ram4 4spd , Silver
$137,500
120k approx on hammer , seller nets about $114,000

[Baron Von Zeppelin]

The 69 TA Ram4 4spd is showing $440,000 , that would be with the juice added.

I had thought they had a 15% juice squeeze in the past.
10% buyer ,,,, 5% seller
That might be wrong, and my crunches might be off
Because idunno

Another 70 GTO Ram4 4spd Black - Saddle is posted as $121,000
T146.2

[Baron Von Zeppelin]

Definitely several determined buyers were aiming for ol Blue today.
He put a whooping on the Ram4 GTO's so far.
And they were a little bit softer than expected.
The Blue/Parchment 69 will be the closest challenger, but I don't expect it to go into the 200's. But if it is dialed in tight it will go high.

ol Blue might even put the whoop on some of the Ram4 Judges coming up.
I need to look at those again .

[Baron Von Zeppelin]

T18
72 Formula 455HO Auto , Loaded , #s , Black on Black , PMD Comp Car
$66,000

Depending on overall quality (and it looks to be of quality)
This is the best deal I have seen so far.
Would much rather have it than the hodge-podge Blue 72 TA that just sold on BaT for about the same amount.
This is a sweet piece if its really nice.

Another was 70 GTO Convertible Triple Black listed as 366hp and wearing Judge Uniform. IF it was a true WS born car and TripleBlk at birth, that was a great buy too, for about $65k.
Description was loosely worded so it might all be make believe/upfitted. idunno

['ol Pinion head]

Originally Posted by Baron Von Zeppelin

Depending on overall quality (and it looks to be of quality)
This is the best deal I have seen so far.
Would much rather have it than the hodge-podge Blue 72 TA that just sold on BaT for about the same amount.
This is a sweet piece if its really nice....

Lot of issues (of a different kind) with that particular black '72 HO Formula.
Has been discussed here before, needs considerable quality metal replacement. Like the blue '72 BAT mess, IMO, it was the sellers who were the ones who did very well on these two.

[Baron Von Zeppelin]

They are only adding the 10% buyers fee on top of hammer price , for the posted results prices.
Sorry about that mistake.

Still reeling about what ol Blue did today.
There just aren't many of these with upper class color combos floating around out there. Then add 4spd and matching #s front to back , and hideaways.
It is the best Hardtop on our list of known cars. imo

When yellow66gto sold it on eBay years ago after completing a very faithful frame off resto, he got paid for parts and labor.
The car was almost free , basically.

[RamAirBirds]

Yes, For Clarity my Understanding is the 69 RAIV TA hammered at 400k. Add 10% buyer premium that put the actual sale price at $440..
Understanding is that a original motor car with very nice original interior, recent repaint with bottom of car untouched/unrestored. Most likely was a nice car underneath so they only did repaint. Probably the best option for that car. Can anybody correct me on those details?

[Mcronk]

I was there today too inspect these cars and watch them go through.

The RAIV T/A was nicely done. With some proper detailing could be concours quality. I did not inspect underneath the car. Buyers premium is 10%, sellers is also 10%. Sellers premium can be "negotiated" based on several factors. If you are bringing a collection of high dollar cars that is definitely a way to negotiate or negate the sellers premium. Sometimes they will approach the seller when cars have stalled near their reserve and "negotiate" to get the car sold. That is why they want you on the stage when your car(s) go across.

72 Formula HO was a mess. A lot of black spray paint on everything. Cracked chrome surrounds on grills etc. The 71 GTO 455 HO was ok. Hood hinges were shot and you had to hold the hood up just to look at engine. A lot of these cars are "built" to sell at the auctions and were wrong parts and incorrect finishes. They are built to make a profit.

Ole Blue shocked me! I figured it would not get past $150k. However there was a slight "bidding war" between two people on the car. The auctioneer had to "work" the bidders to get that money. Fortunately they did get the headlight doors to close. Double checked and car does not have 68 era exhaust manifolds. See pics of my RA II manifold and one on Aegean Blue car. They did nothing to clean up the antifreeze leaking from thermostat or finish cleaning the mud spatter of frame. It is a shame it was not detailed properly but this crowd did not seem to mind. I do think that the car once being owned by Jim Mattison had an impact on the bidding. I spoke with a friend of the owner and he told me the car was owned by one other person after Mattison sold it before the current owner bought it. It brought very good money and was "timed" perfectly. We shall see how this number holds up tomorrow when the Como cars go through.

A 78 and 77 T/A from the same collection went through The 77 brought $100k hammer price. Another Lindley car the Stralight Black 70 RA IV car hammered at $110,500. Again these were not concours level cars. The 69 CR Judge was a total mess. Kinked hood, rust bubbling on hood, bottom of doors, engine paint wrong and compartment very dirty. It hammered at $77k. The Starlight Black 69 Judge was a little better condition and went hammered at $102k. A couple of years ago these would have been a lot less. His winged Mopar collection was in much better condition. Two of them went through today and hammered at $750k and $775k. He has a lot more of those on the list tomorrow.

Another very pretty car was the 70 GTO RAIII 4 speed car in Palladium/Black. Very smooth/shiny paint. It hammered at 145k, very strong money for a RA III GTO 4 speed.

I have been doing updates of the auction on the Southeast GTOAA chapter facebook page if you are interested in other Pontiacs and auction sales.

[Mcronk]

Originally Posted by Baron Von Zeppelin

Depending on overall quality (and it looks to be of quality)
This is the best deal I have seen so far.
Would much rather have it than the hodge-podge Blue 72 TA that just sold on BaT for about the same amount.
This is a sweet piece if its really nice.

Another was 70 GTO Convertible Triple Black listed as 366hp and wearing Judge Uniform. IF it was a true WS born car and TripleBlk at birth, that was a great buy too, for about $65k.
Description was loosely worded so it might all be make believe/upfitted. idunno

The 70 GTO Triple Black Convertible was a tribute car. It does have correct RAIII engine/components. It was originally a 455 engine car. I spoke with the owner a few months ago when it was listed online. It was nice driver quality.

[Mcronk]

Originally Posted by 'ol Pinion head

Thanks for the pics MCronk!

If you get near Chucks collection again, would LOVE to see multiple pics, ESP the interior of the Atoll Blue/Sandalwood RA4 Judge. A little seat time in that particular RAIV Judge was all it took near 45 years ago. One of my best friends older brother, owned it for little over 2 years, I tried in the late 80's to buy it, but even w a very generous offer for the time, no dice.

I forgot in my first response that this was his survivor car. It is amazing as a survivor. It does have a proper SR block with 9792506 cast/stamp. It is very interesting to see the fit of windsheild, doors, bumper, hood. You can definitely tell the paint is pretty much all matching and original. Have attached a few pictures I took of it.