[Vid]

Interesting thread and way more automatics than I would have imagined. And not a close ratio M-22 in the bunch!

One of my personal favorite drivetrains wasn’t performance related at all, it was a bone stock ‘03 Chevy S-10 little truck with a 4 banger and a 5 speed manual. Thing was gutless but bulletproof and a blast to drive.

When I was moving from Atlanta to Pasadena, CA in ‘05, I drove the S-10 with just me and a suitcase up front and my guitar and amp collection in the back (under a tonneau cover). Funny part is, when I was in NM or AZ the speed limit was 75, I crested a hill and there was the HP with a radar gun, and my foot was 100% pedal to the metal. My reaction, naturally, was to lift and hit the brakes. However it was not a problem… the thing would only go 73mph balls out, haha.

I also owned a ‘76 Cosworth Vega for about a year, #2802 out of 3500 built if I recall. Very interesting and collectible car that handled amazingly well, and yes another 4 banger with a 5 speed. Unfortunately specs were probably something like 132 peak horsepower and MINUS 43 lb ft of torque, LOL. It was a DOG down low. But once you got the revs up, say over 4000, then it was a complete and total blast especially in winding mountain roads.


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[besserspat]

Originally Posted by Vid

Interesting thread and way more automatics than I would have imagined. And not a close ratio M-22 in the bunch!

I honestly think that if we weren't "indoctrinated" by how fast our car "should" get in the quarter or how much HP we "should" put out for street cred. We'd drive around in much milder set ups.

it does not mean boring cars , far from that but we would spend more time optimizing and fine tuning what we have, instead of throwing a bunch of aftermarket parts in hopes of pleasing the gods of speed and our ego.

One car I always wanted as a kid was a Porsche 911 Ruf. So I was lucky enough to find one 12 years ago, but it get very little drive time... My main residence is near the downtown core and our roads are absolutely atrocious. The only vintage stuff that cam survive those roads are Jeeps and trucks.

Besides the fact that I would destroy the Porsche on those roads on a regular basis, the car is too clean, too rare and becomes an real burden to drive around surrounded by bozos..

I've even put recent Turbo twist 17" wheels and more forgiving rubber to spare the original wheels from our million potholes.

The Ruf came from the factory with a cage, race seats, stiff suspension and loud RSR type exhaust. The clutch is an On/Off switch and the transmission has airport gearing ( very short track ratio , tops at 135 mph @ 7000 )

So yeah its a hoot to drive on a smooth track , in the street not so much.

I still appreciate the car...

...But I realized a while ago that less is more when it comes to driving the streets and that too much is really a thing.

Peter

[mgarblik]

Drove a 66 Catalina, 9 passenger wagon with a 421 HO, turbo 400, 3.42:1 rear gear for 15 years as a daily driver. Towed a 19ft. 3500 lb. Sea Ray boat thousands of miles with it to various lakes in OH, IN, KY, TN. Towed a open race car trailer with it a few times. It ran 14.69 @ 98 MPH @ 5100 lbs. I would say that was a damn nice combination. I put about 140K miles on it while I owned it.

[77 TRASHCAN]

My brother had a 2nd generation Camaro with a M22 in it. It was fun to drive, but seemed like very little difference between 2nd and 3rd gears (yes I knew then. It was a close ratio trans,). Wider gear spacing, depending on the complete rest of the combo. Is usually a better street driver...

[besserspat]

Originally Posted by mgarblik

Drove a 66 Catalina, 9 passenger wagon with a 421 HO, turbo 400, 3.42:1 rear gear for 15 years as a daily driver. Towed a 19ft. 3500 lb. Sea Ray boat thousands of miles with it to various lakes in OH, IN, KY, TN. Towed a open race car trailer with it a few times. It ran 14.69 @ 98 MPH @ 5100 lbs. I would say that was a damn nice combination. I put about 140K miles on it while I owned it.

Thats indeed a real nice set up... id daily drive that over any new sheetmetal

[mgarblik]

Originally Posted by besserspat

Thats indeed a real nice set up... id daily drive that over any new sheetmetal

Thanks. The brakes were not the best, just because they were 4-wheel drum. Boat trailer had a surge brake that helped. I installed a rear stabilizer bar that greatly improved the handling. Gas mileage wasn't the best, but with tri-power it was OK. As I remember it got about 10 MPG towing that boat on the highway. About 15 MPG, not towing. It was great fun in a stop light challenge, slowly pulling away from mid-late 70's "Muscle Cars" like Corvettes, Z28's, 442's and the like. With a full car of friends and a couple watching the whole thing from the rear facing 3rd seat! Good times.

[Vroom_vroom]

Originally Posted by besserspat

I honestly think that if we weren't "indoctrinated" by how fast our car "should" get in the quarter or how much HP we "should" put out for street cred. We'd drive around in much milder set ups.

it does not mean boring cars , far from that but we would spend more time optimizing and fine tuning what we have, instead of throwing a bunch of aftermarket parts in hopes of pleasing the gods of speed and our ego.

One car I always wanted as a kid was a Porsche 911 Ruf. So I was lucky enough to find one 12 years ago, but it get very little drive time... My main residence is near the downtown core and our roads are absolutely atrocious. The only vintage stuff that cam survive those roads are Jeeps and trucks.

Besides the fact that I would destroy the Porsche on those roads on a regular basis, the car is too clean, too rare and becomes an real burden to drive around surrounded by bozos..

I've even put recent Turbo twist 17" wheels and more forgiving rubber to spare the original wheels from our million potholes.

The Ruf came from the factory with a cage, race seats, stiff suspension and loud RSR type exhaust. The clutch is an On/Off switch and the transmission has airport gearing ( very short track ratio , tops at 135 mph @ 7000 )

So yeah its a hoot to drive on a smooth track , in the street not so much.

I still appreciate the car...

...But I realized a while ago that less is more when it comes to driving the streets and that too much is really a thing.

Peter

I remember watching a show or documentary on them many years back, very cool find! They put together some fantastic cars.


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[geeteeohguy]

For a 4 speed GTO, I like a 3.23 gear out back. Does everything well. On an automatic, I like a 2.93. I installed a 2.56 posi in my TH400 '67 GTO because it was free and I do a lot of long distance driving and I love it. 21 mpg at a steady 75-80 mph, and 3000 rpm at 91 mph.
Back in the day, had a few tripower 4 speed GTO's with 3.55's and they were a blast. But the national speed limit was 55 mph and enforced, so they weren't bad then. Now, no way I'd run 3.55 gears. I like to keep up with traffic.

[besserspat]

Originally Posted by geeteeohguy

For a 4 speed GTO, I like a 3.23 gear out back. Does everything well. On an automatic, I like a 2.93.

I have a '80 plain jane camaro that currently has a very mild rebuilt 350 th350 , 2.56 gear and 2.25" true dual exhaust. That car is definitely not fast but still is fun accelerating with the exhaust sound and the Q-jet secondaries opening growl.. The gears and simplicity of that car make it really fun and cheap on gas .

I have an LS7 454, a 4 speed and a beefed up 3 42 rear end ready and waiting to go in it but I keep postponing the swap cuz the mild Camaro is just so simple and relax.

[Dragncar]

Originally Posted by mgarblik

Drove a 66 Catalina, 9 passenger wagon with a 421 HO, turbo 400, 3.42:1 rear gear for 15 years as a daily driver. Towed a 19ft. 3500 lb. Sea Ray boat thousands of miles with it to various lakes in OH, IN, KY, TN. Towed a open race car trailer with it a few times. It ran 14.69 @ 98 MPH @ 5100 lbs. I would say that was a damn nice combination. I put about 140K miles on it while I owned it.

I grew up with a 66 Catalina Station Wagon. 389, 3 on the tree and had a Toploader 3 speed from the factory. Got 19mpg. Took us from CA to Broken Bow OK twice.
My dad put a GTO intake and AFB on her. Totaled it 3 times. 55 Chevy pickup was stopped in the middle of the road just past a curve on a 2 lane mountain road talking to people on both sides of the truck. We plowed into their Barden bumper and shortened the car. Had a complete Bonneville front end on her after that down to the emblems. (my dad go the ticket for the rear end but its not like we could go around them with people there. He caught my sisters head seeing her in the rear view mirror as she was about to go through the windshield)
2nd time the whole car got sandblasted in a dust storm in New Mexico on a OK trip. All new glass and paint job.
3rd time I burnt the dash down playing with flares....... in the Church parking lot at intermission.
The 66 389 thin cylinder wall issue finally took her out in the 80s.
We pulled the intake and carb before hauling her off.
My brother and I wish we still had her once we started bracket racing because it would have been very cool and consistent with all that weight out back.

This thread, my vote goes to a 400HP 455 with 3.08s and a T400. 480LE even better.

[Goatracer1]

1965 GTO with a basically stock 1969 428, 4 speed Muncie and 3.90 rear ratio. It was my daily driver 50 years ago. Drove it 40 miles each way to work in rain, snow and heat of summer. Drove it to the top of Mt. Washington. Raced it at New England Dragway driving it there and home on 7" cheater slicks .

[hurryinhoosier62]

406 (.030 over 400)/TH400/3.23:1
Stock 400/TH400/3.73:1(trailer towing package. It was killer off the line!)
My least favorite 350P/TH400/2.45:1( it did get 20-22 mpg but was an absolute dog under acceleration.

[mrmark1957]

Originally Posted by hurryinhoosier62

406 (.030 over 400)/TH400/3.23:1
Stock 400/TH400/3.73:1(trailer towing package. It was killer off the line!)
My least favorite 350P/TH400/2.45:1( it did get 20-22 mpg but was an absolute dog under acceleration.

Do you remember what cylinder heads/ compression were on the 406 ? What octane gas did it need ?

[hgerhardt]

Fav drivetrain in my '66 GTO: 428 with 72cc E-heads, solid roller (250-ish at .050, 114), 200-4R and 3.73 12-bolt and port EFI to make it streetable.

What I like about the 428 is more torque than a 400, but not so much that it overwhelms street tires (ones that handle corners well), but has that lovely high-RPM rip with good horsepower. Even with less torque than a bigger motor, it will still do wheelspin at 55 mph if you stand on it in 2nd.

One of these days I'll install a TKX... my "low" torque, high-RPM engine should be a natural for this trans.

[hurryinhoosier62]

Originally Posted by mrmark1957

Do you remember what cylinder heads/ compression were on the 406 ? What octane gas did it need ?

6X-4s milled to 85cc, zero deck. If I remember correctly it was around 9.2:1. I used 87 in the winter and 93 in the summer, since I spent a lot of time sitting in traffic in Cincinnati back then. Worked in Dayton but spent time taking care of my mom’s house (north of Louisville) on the weekends.

[Skip Fix]

When I was autocrossing my 78 with the 455 and RAIV heads TH 350 3.42 gears a 26" tall tire to drive there 45 minutes away-swapped on 23" road races slicks.

No back in the day with .30 leaded premium I street drove throwing papers and street raced my wide ratio Muncie 409 Impala and a 28" tire and 4.10s the when I blew off the ring gear bolts(spacer plate) 4.56s. And drove it on the freeways!

[Slick]

My friend's 1964 GTO. Drove it several times. Spent many, many, many hours riding in the car. As light as a "stock" 64 could be: manual steering, manual brakes, no console, no A/C. 3.23 posi (corporate rear), 26" tires, Super T-10 2.64/1.75/1.33/1.00, SD-455 with Herb Gebler headers.

He got the engine through Skip McCully. Car was on the road with that engine in June or July of 1973, beading the SD Firebirds to the public by a month or so.

I've seen many SD cylinder heads, owned three pairs, but none like these. You could almost see the whole backside of the intake valve through the intake port.

Installation was done by Max Sterling, Bob Maxey prepared the stock Q-Jet (4-speed crate motor), 1.65 rockers. Otherwise a completely stock SD-455. Real turbo Corvair mufflers.

Car was quiet, smooth, tractable, drive it anywhere. Very sensitive to fuel quality, but cruising it got about 20 MPG.

It was crazy fast. First gear was unusable. It spun through most of second, would leave long patches of rubber going into fourth at 110-115. IF you could hook up the car, it would probably have run high 10's. Never seen anything like it.

Found out later that the engine had been a test mule for Pontiac, and then returned to stock components, put on the shelf and sold. The General Kinetics cam and other pieces were removed. But the ports, optimized by an outside shop, remained. Maybe it was Airflow Research, my memory is fuzzy on that and the car owner is deceased.

As an all around car/engine/tire/transmission combination it was amazing in all respects. But it was a beast to park with the manual steering!

[besserspat]

Great story The Champ. I wonder if the car would have liked 3.08 instead because of the short tires.

[Slick]

Originally Posted by besserspat

Great story The Champ. I wonder if the car would have liked 3.08 instead because of the short tires.

Maybe, but in the owner's style of roll racing, he never had an issue that made him think of changing anything.

Here's a couple of pictures of that car (in the 1980s I think). Her name was Samantha.

[kingbuzzo]

roll racing...i've done it but didn't realize there was an actual term...thx for that