[Va68goat]

So, I'm pretty much done with everything mechanical on my 68 GTO and now it's time for paint and body. A friend of mine referred me to a friend of his that painted his 70 GTO and his 66 Mustang. My buddy was very happy with the work and I've seen some pictures of his work. I along with grivera (Will) stopped by his shop and checked it out. It's a nice clean shop. The shop mainly does insurance jobs because they don't want a bunch of old cars taking up room in the shop for an extended about of time.

I have some rust bubbling on the door bottoms, quarter panels have some bondo, doors are a little wavy, fenders need a little work, trunk lid seems ok but I do see a few rust bubbles under the vinyl near the trunk. I along with a buddy of mine patched the floor pans and the center of the trunk and it was done so well that you can't even see a seam.

Here is my concern. The guy gave me a price without seeing the car. I sent him some pictures and told him the issues. He gave me a reasonable price and "he said" no matter what he finds, the price will not go up unless it's a serious structure issue. All this sounds great but a little too good to be true and I'd like to hear some ways to protect myself prior to dropping off the car. I'm going with a complete color change. My car has kind of a weird red/orange paint that I don't really care for. I'm pretty sure I want to go with a mid 60's Pontiac color, Blue Charcoal Poly.

Any thoughts, ideas, tips, ways to protect myself?

[tom s]

Be VERY careful!Find people that have used him,there are endless examples of paint shop jail!Tom

[Va68goat]

Originally Posted by tom s

Be VERY careful!Find people that have used him,there are endless examples of paint shop jail!Tom

My one buddy that used him was very happy with his work. It's crazy..one minute I'm good with it but the next I read all these horror stories. Would some sort of signed contract help me? I've been googling and it appears there are some sample contracts out there to use.

[tom s]

He will have your car and will be at his mercy.If he does insurance work you will be pushed behind that stuff.Just facts of life.Tom

[Stuart]

Saying the price won't go up before even seeing the car in person is a red flag for me.

A complete color change done right is pretty involved, the car will basically need to be stripped down to a bare shell to do it properly.

[turbo69bird]

One of the scariest things is dropping your car off to be totally dismantled by someone else hoping they will take as good of care as you would, and knowing they won’t. Even if they are way more knowledgeable ,it’s never the same as you’d care about it. It’s just about the money and that’s never the same .
This quote:
The shop mainly does insurance jobs because they don't want a bunch of old cars taking up room in the shop for an extended about of time.

Would make me RUN LIKE HELL! He’s already saying he doesn’t like doing your type of car . So why is he doing it?

[Goatracer1]

I used the same type of shop for my GP. I knew the owner because the shop did work for the dealer I had worked for. GET EVERYTHING IN WRITING FIRST! A job that was to take only a few weeks took 6 months. Part way through the job he wanted an additional $1000. The car was always outside while they did collision work. When I finally came to pick up the car the windshield and back glass were not in the car. He said he thought I wanted to put them in. My new emblems were on the wrong sides of the car and broken. The owner told me I owed him another $500 for the windshield HE broke and had to replace. To this day I haven't paid him the last $500. If you don't have it in writing it's his word against yours if push comes to shove. In this state you can't be charged more than 10 percent above a written estimate.

[grivera]

Joe - you’re getting great feedback so far and some of the same points we discussed

I want to clarify a couple of things. The person who will be doing the work is not the shop owner. He is a 70ish year old fella who reportedly has decades of experience doing paint and body. From our meeting it was unclear if he is an employee of the body shop or just using the space to do classic car/restoration work. His bread and butter is insurance work and he said he has a 10-year lease. The owner of the shop and fella doing Joe’s car have reportedly known one another a couple of years.

All restoration parts MINUS paint and paint, preparation supplies are to be purchased by Joe.

Presently, shop does not have a paint booth- vehicles are taking elsewhere for that and it was unclear where. After paint they are brought back to the shop for final cut/buffing. Also no frame machine or alignment machine.

Lastly, I drove my newly acquired 64 LeMans there to get an estimate on having the lower quarters replaced and after examining my car the old fella offered me the same deal as he did Joe- 14K for body and paint with a color change. He was not interested in just doing the lower quarters. He is very anxious to get started on a classic car.

[1965gp]

My question was going to be what was the price? If it was $2500 I would run away; but if you sent him 50 pictures detailing the work needed and he said 14k and you know people that are happy with the work I can see it happening.

My advice would be to put together a pay schedule.

For example-

$2k when the car is stripped and taken apart by xx/xx/xx
$5k when all the metal work is done by xx/xx/xx
$2k when the pats are painted by xx/xx/xx
$5k when the car is leaving the shop by xx/xx/xx

Let him pick the dates. He probably won’t meet the dates but at least you can say that he picked the dates.

I just got really lucky- had my 87 Formula painted in 3 weeks. Very appreciative of that- but the same painter has had my 58 Bonneville for 4 years

[kingbuzzo]

I don't think any shop can guestimate this kind of work.

After they strip the 50 years of paint/bondo hijinx then they will actually know what they are getting into.

Sounds suspicious.

If you are keeping the car for a long time I would shop around until you are comfortable.

Also, one hailstorm and you could get back burnt for a year.

[turbo69bird]

Yeah unless I knew several guys who’d had cars done I’d run like hell from this deal. Don’t even know where the car is going for paint. Oh helll, no . Not my car.

[mgarblik]

Originally Posted by kingbuzzo

I don't think any shop can guestimate this kind of work.

After they strip the 50 years of paint/bondo hijinx then they will actually know what they are getting into.

Sounds suspicious.

If you are keeping the car for a long time I would shop around until you are comfortable.

Also, one hailstorm and you could get back burnt for a year.

When I had the bodywork and paint done on my 66 2+2 convertible, it looked pretty darn straight when it went into the shop. 2 weeks later, when it was stripped to bare metal, I was shocked as was the body man doing the work to find both lower quarter panels were made of newspaper, window screen and bondo, One piece of the body newspaper had a 1977 date still visible. So in the 11 years since production, both lower quarters were completely rusted off the poor car. No way to be sure what's under the paint until it's stripped. Any shop giving you a firm price without even seeing the car is asking for some level of unhappiness. It's like buying a lottery ticket. Does anyone really EXPECT to win. Whatever number you were given for the work, expect to pay double or triple whatever that is as a starting point. Hope it all works out for you . I would also caution you that this mystery body man that doesn't really work at this body shop and may be renting space and doesn't really have a paint booth is going to be completely insulated when things go to hell as they always seem to do. When the parts all get lost and the bodyman has a falling out with the actual shop owner, and they split up. Now he has no place to put your car so he starts selling off all the parts for food, you have little to no recourse. The shop owner says this guy was a sub-contractor and he has nothing to do with it. This whole thing sounds like a recipe for disaster. I would only proceed with EXTREME caution.

[b-man]

Is that red car pictured the one you’re thinking about getting painted?

I looks absolutely stunning in those pictures.

A few minor imperfections in the paint I’d overlook if it were mine. That looks like car that should be enjoyed and not sentenced to paint jail which unfortunately ends up being a death sentence in too many instances.

Quite often people end up never driving something that’s been worked to 100% perfection. Having a car with few flaws is no big deal and you worry a whole lot less about that small dent or paint chip.

[HoovDaddy]

Originally Posted by Va68goat

I have some rust bubbling on the door bottoms, quarter panels have some bondo, doors are a little wavy, fenders need a little work, trunk lid seems ok but I do see a few rust bubbles under the vinyl near the trunk. I along with a buddy of mine patched the floor pans and the center of the trunk and it was done so well that you can't even see a seam.

I've built many cars that match your description, and I found out early-on that it is impossible to estimate cost accurately until the car is dismantled and paint stripped. I had a guy that wanted a '71 Z28 touched up, it had 2 rust bubbles above the rocker and I ended up replacing the entire rear end. One thing leads to another.

You have plenty of clues that tell me you'll need some new sheet metal to do it right. You also want the job to last for many years, without worrying if you get caught in the rain and the car gets wet. Most people fear that, but with todays products used properly, it's really a thing of the past.

This is going to be a big job. His estimate is not necessarily a contract, but he may have a separate contract of his own that protects him, you'll need to review it and ammend as necessary to protect yourself. Don't work with a shop without a contract. A shop is going to need cash to work on your car. Agree to a sum that you will pay on a as-needed basis. The job will start as materials and labor in the beginning and evolve into labor, materials, and parts as the project moves along. Parts and paint supplies are pricey. You'll need details and pics of what you are paying for on each payment.

Find out what brand/products they are going to prep with and ask opinions. Find out what brand and tier level the color and clear are. Top tier paints are better quality and usually better looking than the cheaper "fleet" tier paints. Some clears are more durable than others.

Some parts are on long delays since covid. I just waited 2 years for a Mustang floor pan. Find out what happens to your car while the shop waits for parts or there are delays because they are short on labor. Will they charge you storage if they can't work on the car? Will they push it outdoors? The longer it sits the higher the risk for damage.

I have one question, since you are satisfied with your floor pan work, why don't you do the job yourself? There is plenty of help available on-line or take a course at a local college. Buying everything you need will save you a bundle and you have total control. Just my opinion.

Also, I would remove the entire interior, put some old wheels and tires on before you drop it anywhere.

[tjs72lemans]

Another thought on top of HoovDaddy is, since this guy does insurance work and doesn't want a car sitting around the shop taking up space, do you have space for him to work on it in your garage. At 70, maybe he could use your hand here and there and you can see the progress, as well as not lose your car if things go south. I can't see how anyone could give an estimate without viewing a car. Especially someone like that with years of experience. They know what they can run into. It also sounds like your buddy had the body shop owner do his work, not this 70 year old guy. Or did I get confused. If that is the case, you have no idea what his work looks like. I'd ask if he has past references.

[Va68goat]

1965gp,
That schedule you wrote out makes a lot of sense and very good advice. Thank you for taking the time to do that.

kingbuzzo,
Everyone that I talk to and everything I read says exactly what you wrote. I don't think any shop can guestimate this kind of work". Thats exactly what I'm worried about. I think I know what to do but damn it's tempting! Hahaha.

mgarblik,
Newspaper??? Holy crap! Yeah, thanks for telling me that story. I am concerned about whats underneath the paint. The plan was to do a scuff and shoot and replace any metal thats rusted. It's not looking too promising now! On another note...do you still have the 62 Catalina. My buddy just picked one up and he's got some Super Duty parts to it and wanted to speak to someone before he rebuilds the motor. I think he has a SD intake, heads, dual carbs and possibly rods with a 455 block. Would you mind if he reached out to you? He could use some advice from someone with some experience.

b-man,
Yeah, thats my car. Paint is decent considering it was done around 18 years ago. I'm going to post some pictures of the bad areas and hopefully get some advice on how to proceed.

HoovDaddy,
Really good advice..thank you. I may have used the term "we" did the floorpan and trunk a little too loosely. My buddy pretty much did all of it and I was just there. I didn't do any cutting or welding. I did a lot of grinding and sanding. After he welded the new metal in, we used a grinder to get it close and then we used a little bondo to hide any signs that the floorpan was patched. We then sealed the pans. I'll post some pictures of the work we did.

tjs72lemans,
Having him do the bodywork at my house would be a great idea. I have the room but I do have an HOA that would have an aneurysm if I did that. I got dirty looks when we had to pull the motor several times when it was having an issue. My buddy had his car done by the "guy" that isn't really an employee of the shop. The owner of the shop did say that all money, warranty and billing will go through the shop. I guess the shop will pay "the guy".

[Va68goat]

Here are some issues that you can actually see

[Va68goat]

Here are some pictures of what "we" did with the trunk. Looks like the lower quarters had been replaced. There was a seam that you could see. I pretty much hid all of that with bondo so I could make it look better for the spatter paint

[Va68goat]

Here is some work that was done to the floorpans and trunk.

[Va68goat]

After grinding down the welds, we skimmed a little bondo and sanded it down to make it look clean.