[Va68goat]

After going through all of this work for about a year...now I know why paint and body guys demand so much money. The guy wants to charge $14,000 which includes materials. He says he will take the fenders, hood, doors and trunk lid off to prep and paint. As much as I want to do this, I can't help but take good advice that this may be to good to be true!

[HoovDaddy]

Originally Posted by Va68goat

charge $14,000 which includes materials

I think you'll be way over $14k once he gets into it.

When you look at references, you need references from work completed several years ago. Lots of shops can turn around a job quickly and use lesser quality procedures/products, and it will look great for a year or 2, soon after it might start degrading.

The job below that I'm working on now ('65 Mustang) was an original paint driver when the owner took it to the first shop. The agreement was to do a stock restoration.
They had it for almost 2 years, charging him $1,200 per month. They replaced both quarter panels, RH trunk panel, both front aprons and shock towers. After no progress for a while, he pulled it from that shop and took it to another that wasn't interested based on the amount of work.

With the body work they completed, I think they thought they were done with prep and ready for paint.

The car has sentimental value and can be saved, but all the prior work has to be cut off and redone. This is a true worse case scenario and the owner did not have a contract with the shop to collect on.

Just a few of the problems:

• The shop conned the owner into purchasing almost $5k in repop parts for final assembly including full interior, exhaust tips, repop wheels and tires.
• The front aprons are not welded square to the car, the LH wheelbase is 1 3/8" longer than the RH side.
• The rear inner wheel housings are badly rotted and barely attached to the trunk floor.
• The rear frame rails are rotted through.
• The front frame rails are welded to the cowl using hardware store steel angle (the kind with holes in it).
• The rear torque boxes are completely rotted out, nothing but rust hold the the front of the rear spring to the floor on both sides.
• One quarter was a full quarter, and the other was sectioned, both are cracking at the seams and the car hasn't been on the road yet.
• They didn't weld the quarters to the rocker panels.
• The quarter extensions don't fit due to the way they welded the rear of the quarters.
• All of the welds are edge welds, no plug welds.
• On Fords like this the quarter is basically a skin, they didn't panel match to the doors before welding. The gap is horrible.
• It needs a full trunk floor, you can see light through most of it. I'm installing a one piece assembly from firewall to tail panel.
• The engine was rebuilt and looked fresh. When I turned it over by hand I broke the oil pump shaft. The entire bottom end was full of grit. Most of the valve seats leak.

This stuff really happens and more often than you think. This car will now become a restomod and live another life.

[Va68goat]

Originally Posted by HoovDaddy

I think you'll be way over $14k once he gets into it.

When you look at references, you need references from work completed several years ago. Lots of shops can turn around a job quickly and use lesser quality procedures/products, and it will look great for a year or 2, soon after it might start degrading.

The job below that I'm working on now ('65 Mustang) was an original paint driver when the owner took it to the first shop. The agreement was to do a stock restoration.
They had it for almost 2 years, charging him $1,200 per month. They replaced both quarter panels, RH trunk panel, both front aprons and shock towers. After no progress for a while, he pulled it from that shop and took it to another that wasn't interested based on the amount of work.

With the body work they completed, I think they thought they were done with prep and ready for paint.

The car has sentimental value and can be saved, but all the prior work has to be cut off and redone. This is a true worse case scenario and the owner did not have a contract with the shop to collect on.

Just a few of the problems:

• The shop conned the owner into purchasing almost $5k in repop parts for final assembly including full interior, exhaust tips, repop wheels and tires.
• The front aprons are not welded square to the car, the LH wheelbase is 1 3/8" longer than the RH side.
• The rear inner wheel housings are badly rotted and barely attached to the trunk floor.
• The rear frame rails are rotted through.
• The front frame rails are welded to the cowl using hardware store steel angle (the kind with holes in it).
• The rear torque boxes are completely rotted out, nothing but rust hold the the front of the rear spring to the floor on both sides.
• One quarter was a full quarter, and the other was sectioned, both are cracking at the seams and the car hasn't been on the road yet.
• They didn't weld the quarters to the rocker panels.
• The quarter extensions don't fit due to the way they welded the rear of the quarters.
• All of the welds are edge welds, no plug welds.
• On Fords like this the quarter is basically a skin, they didn't panel match to the doors before welding. The gap is horrible.
• It needs a full trunk floor, you can see light through most of it. I'm installing a one piece assembly from firewall to tail panel.
• The engine was rebuilt and looked fresh. When I turned it over by hand I broke the oil pump shaft. The entire bottom end was full of grit. Most of the valve seats leak.

This stuff really happens and more often than you think. This car will now become a restomod and live another life.

I would like to be able to say "Oh, my car isn't as far gone as the one you're working on" but I just don't honestly know. My car is very presentable as a driver quality car. I've done a lot to this car in the last 5 years. My car is far from stock. Nice 462 cubic inch, 4L80e trans, 12 bolt rear with 3.55 gears, Dakota Digital gauges, SPC adjustable front upper control arms, Hotchkis shocks etc. I guess since I've done so much to this car I can't help but want to finish it. I think the right thing for me to do is forget this deal and keep moving forward in hopes of one day getting it done by someone else. It's sure as hell tempting to go through with this deal but I don't want to get my car back in pieces or not done properly.

Thanks everyone for talking me off the ledge!

[dataway]

I've become convinced that there are only two ways to get a car painted in this hobby.

1. Have very deep pockets and lots lots of patience.

2. Have very very deep pockets and less patience and take it to a restoration shop.

3. Have the basic skills and tools and do it yourself with abundant information and advice from a forum like this ... and accept it's not going to be "show" quality.

I've got about $3000 and 18 months into the paint and body work on mine. Although mine did not require much rust work at all. No paint booth, metallic paint, good compressor and gun ... last car I painted was 35 years before this. Just finished it about a month ago.

[mgarblik]

I would add #4 to your list. 4. Buy a car with the body and paint already done and either incomplete or having mechanical or other problems you can repair. There are an abundant number of nice looking, lousy running cars out there. They can often be bought at a bargain price vs a complete, show ready car. I think it is safe to say there is NOTHING mechanical on an old collector car that comes close to the cost of quality paint and body work. BTW, your car looks great. And you did it yourself!!!

[tjs72lemans]

When you say "the billing goes through the shop and the owner pays the guy doing the work", the money to the guy and materials could be gone before the car is done. No owner is going to pay the "guy" or materials out of his pocket. So, that sounds bad.
I would check around at car shows or your car guy friends to see if they know someone on the side that does this work.
I painted my 72 Lemans in my 2 car garage with two cheap fans and a compressor that wouldn't keep up as well as a cheap gun. I had lots of orange peel to sand and buff, but it came out way better than expected. The Lamborghini orange paint was expensive. I have less than $3000 in my new tri coat paint (previous owner replaced quarters and rest of body was solid). I have received 6 trophies and awards at six shows I had it at (including people's choice). This can be done a small budget and know what you're getting and where it's at in progression.

[kingbuzzo]

[QUOTE=mgarblik;6382910]I would add #4 to your list. 4. Buy a car with the body and paint already done

That's where I ended up with my old '74 T/A last year.

The most realistic quote I got to replace the quarters, door skins, patch the floors, etc etc etc was 23k (canindian)...

She was only a 400 nothing special optioned car so I let her go - too afraid of the window screen and whatever living under the bondo. It accumulates over 50 years...lol

Not saying that is what you face with your car at all but that's how I came to my decision. If you are not doing it yourself, you are at their retail mercy.

Very nice car btw...we're rooting for you either way you go

[Formulabruce]

Va68goat . What class car body paint do you want when done? 1, 2, 3 ( where most are) or 4 ( what you have) ?
Are you willing to strip off the chrome and handles, locks yourself?
Body shop quotes are 80% BLOCK sanding, just a fact.
A driver quality 1 stage paint quick fix could last for 10 years if car is garaged, like your cars last paint job. This could save money and get you on the road.
From what I see in your pics, if you really want it " restored" to original type quality, its a 35k job at least. You just want a paint job, and you really need to decide what you will accept. Look how long your last paint job lasted.
TO MOST of the rest of you... here is YOUR Question.
I hear this Sooo many times.. " buy one thats "DONE".
SO. What is DONE ? Really, Done?
Done right?
Done driver?
Done its running and drives?
Done it has paint?
Nearly EVERY car thats " DONE" is Done, .... "BUT" ...
Think about what Done means to you and your money..

[tjs72lemans]

I agree with Formula on done. What has the last person DONE to finish the car you're paying big money for? Was it shoddy work that looks good now to get a big buck? You may find fixing things soon and spending more. Right now you know what you have. Or, will have. You've done a lot of nice work on the under side of the car so far. Maybe better than what you would buy. Can the guy that helped with the under side help with the rest? Or, help sand bad spots down to needing metal replaced? Getting the car to a point of prime and paint would save you much.

[DavesGTO]

I was lucky but maybe see if you can find someone that will paint your car with your help? A 77 year old guy painted my car and I had to help him with it and at some points get some extra hands. Nothing professional but maybe there is someone in the hobby around you that is willing to do it with some help from you. Not the cheapest way to go but you’ll see everything that happens and the progress it makes.




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[1965gp]

I honestly do not think that car needs enough work to put it in potential paint jail. Have the worst spots touched up and if you need to pull the vinyl top, clean it, seal it and put a new one back on. The spot repairs will probably last 5-10 years if garaged. You will be out of it for less than 10k and will be able to enjoy the car in the spring.

I would hate to see a car that nice get disassembled and have parts or even worse the car go missing.

[Formulabruce]

Originally Posted by 1965gp

I honestly do not think that car needs enough work to put it in potential paint jail. Have the worst spots touched up and if you need to pull the vinyl top, clean it, seal it and put a new one back on. The spot repairs will probably last 5-10 years if garaged. You will be out of it for less than 10k and will be able to enjoy the car in the spring.

I would hate to see a car that nice get disassembled and have parts or even worse the car go missing.

I agree with this 99%, the 1% is the Unknown once the grinder gets to the bubbles and the size of cancer is found.

[Va68goat]

dataway,
Your car looks great! I don't have the skillset or the tools to do this myself.

tjs72lemans,
Yeah, I told the guy today that I'm going to pass on getting the paint and bodywork done. My car is presentable but I'm going to slow roll this. Hopefully I'll find the right guy. I know my brother in law is going to do some paint and bodywork on his 55 Chevy. I think I'll help him and learn a few things. I'm sure sure after we are done with his car, we can start on mine! Man..the guy that helped me with the car did so much for me and I would never want him to spend his time on my car when he's trying to get his car on the road now. My car was at his house for a year. What started as a transmission swap from the turbo 400 to a 4L80e and swapping the gauges for Dakota Digital, turned out to be a damn near frame on. We fixed or replaced everything that we saw that was bad or wasn't right.

kingbuzzo,
It would have been nice to buy a car with paint and body done. I couldn't pass the deal up 5 years ago on this car. This car came with a late date code 68 service replacement Ram Air block and a Ram Air carb. I only paid $13k for the car. I got 8K back by selling those!

Formulabruce,
My car is far from stock and I'm not looking for a concourse restoration. This is only the second old car I've had and after all the work I've done to this car in the last 5 years, I know I don't want to ever do anything like this again. I'm not knowledgeable about these old cars and I've had a lot of help from friends. I've actually done a lot to this car myself but nothing of real importance but it did save me a lot of money. I'd like to have the paint not so orange looking and correct the doors that are a little wavy. Just looking for something that will make it look better than what it does but not blow the car apart and spend more than the car is worth. I plan on keeping this car since it will be the last one I own.

DavesGTO,
Your car looks great and that's the direction I hope to go. Maybe helping my brother in law and when we're done, get started on my car.

1965gp,
I'm liking that idea. It would be nice to replace the vinyl top and see if I can get someone to cut and replace some rust spots. It may be hard to match this paint! If I do that. I would want to get the doors worked on so it doesn't look so bad!

[HoovDaddy]

Originally Posted by DavesGTO

I was lucky but maybe see if you can find someone that will paint your car with your help? A 77 year old guy painted my car and I had to help him with it and at some points get some extra hands. Nothing professional but maybe there is someone in the hobby around you that is willing to do it with some help from you. Not the cheapest way to go

This is exactly what I started 23 years ago. My buddy wanted a old car but didn't know how to restore it. I helped him build his dream car on Saturdays, gave him homework during the week. His brother wanted to help, and he bought a car. We did that car as well. It kept snowballing. Put sweat equity into a current project and the guys will do your car. We now have 7 regulars, we call it the Saturday Car Club. every car has been a body-off, we do everything except machine work and headliners. No labor charge, just breakfast, lunch, and beverages. We also do outings with the wives. It's lots of fun. We are all old too.

We finished this car in 2021. Real RS/Z28 dragged out of a field, all repop sheetmetal except deck lid and roof. The owner helped on 2 prior cars. Painted in the owners garage with 2014 Corvette Longbeach Red over a black base.

[b-man]

I’m thinking Va68goat should move to MI somewhere near HoovDaddy’s neighborhood.

[HoovDaddy]

Originally Posted by b-man

I’m thinking Va68goat should move to MI somewhere near HoovDaddy’s neighborhood.

Funny, we don't have a club project right now.

[b-man]

Originally Posted by HoovDaddy

Funny, we don't have a club project right now.

Seems it’s a ripe opportunity to trailer that car out to your place and strike up a deal. From your posts and pictures you’re someone who really knows and gets it done.

Wishing everyone here the best on their paint projects.

[HoovDaddy]

Originally Posted by b-man

Seems it’s a ripe opportunity to trailer that car out to your place and strike up a deal. From your posts and pictures you’re someone who really knows and gets it done.

Wishing everyone here the best on their paint projects.

Thank you sir.

[dataway]

va68 ... I'm a huge fan of the "slow roll", I approach project very cautiously .. I was literally five years in the planning and deciding before I painted my car. Explored options, listened, learned, watched videos, gathered advice ... left my options open to the last minute. Exploit the brother-in-law connection as much as you possibly can to learn, see how much is involved, how much help you can offer.

But as others have said ... first FULLY explore how good you can make the car look without full paint. Address any critical areas first (specially if you daily drive or live in a humid environment). Great opportunity to get familiar with a buffer .. knowledge that you will need down the road anyway.

Hoov ... freakin amazing how fast work can be done working as a group. Seven guys could strip a car to bare metal in one day. It could take one guy probably two weeks ... not sure how it works out that way, but it always seems to. I guess if you don't have to get tools out, and put them away, and prepare an area, and clean up and area a dozen times it makes things much more efficient.

[turbo69bird]

I wouldn’t say the $14k for the paint job is the issue , I know a guy who just had a bird done for $10k and it came out amazing the issue ti me is more that the guy
States he doesn’t do old cars because he doesn’t want them sitting around. But there are guys doing nice paint for that kind of money. Dealers who do a lot of volume
work at shops get stuff painted for that kind of money or less all the time .